Doctrine Changes in Revelation’s Reality (1985)

Doctrine Changes in Revelation’s Reality (1985)
Category: teaching/doctrine

LittleBird50

I recently found the pdf for Lee Man-Hee’s book ‘Revelation’s Reality’ published December 1985 and have been slowly reading through it. I’ve also noticed that some members are claiming there have not been any changes to SCJ doctrine, there have only been updates. I decided to compile a few clear examples of changes just from this book.

To summarise, these are the changes in order of most clearly changed:

1. The 3.5 days the witnesses are dead in Rev 11:9 was taught to be 3.5 years of jail + probation but is now taught to be 3.5 days from 30 Jan – 2 Feb 1981
2. The measuring rod in Rev 11:1 was taught to be the Word from God (similar to the scroll in Rev 10) but is now taught to be the 2nd witness
3. The 7,000 killed in Rev 11:13 was taught to be symbolic of the leaders of Tabernacle Temple (Babylon) not being successful, but is now taught to be the members of the congregation.
4. The beast of the earth in Rev 13 was taught to be Lee Cho-joo but is now taught to be Oh Pyeong-ho (listed last because names are not explicitly mentioned, but I think the evidence is undeniable anyway)

Let’s take a closer look at each of these apparent changes with excerpts from ‘Revelation’s Reality’ (1985) as well as examples of current teaching. If you want the full pdf of the book you can download it here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqP-rA02PcykdSkEnBraTABBIr4?e=hvhsNc. It’s split into two files, Rev 1-11 and Rev 12-22.

1. The 3.5 days the two witnesses are dead in Rev 11:9, :11

Page 167 translated: After three and a half days, breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood up on their horses, and the onlookers were greatly afraid. When they heard a loud voice from heaven saying, Come up here, they ascended on clouds into heaven. Even the enemies watched (Rev 11:11-12)

The three-and-a-half days suggested in the text means three and a half years, the sum of the actual sentences received by the two witnesses and the probation period.

Page 165 translated: In this way, they have repeatedly called for repentance and awakening by repeating the same evidence. However, the messengers of the reserve altar and the people would have dismissed it at first, thinking it was just a talk of a poor man. With patience and perseverance, the Witness continued to send letters of testimony. Later, the Seven Heads of Enemies and the group of apostates began to protest, and finally, as described above, they filed a complaint with the prosecution. As a result, the beast that came up from the abyss started a war between the two witnesses.

As already recorded, the two witnesses were detained by the prosecution and sentenced to one hundred days in prison. One thing we need to understand here is the passage that prevented the burial of his body for three and a half days. In conclusion, prohibiting the burial of the bodies of the two witnesses does not mean killing their bodies or imprisoning them in a brigade for three and a half years, equivalent to three and a half days. Since the two witnesses were detained at the protests that year they began and finished their witnesses, in effect a year passed.

Page 166 translated: He was released and released in February of the following year. However, when released, the sentence was suspended for two and a half years, and the period of disciplinary action reached three and a half years. Also, the word “killed” does not mean physical death, and the suspension was given so that he could not testify to the word, so he ended up in a dead position.

In other words, the Word is life. The fact that the missionary who had to bear witness to this word of life became unable to do the work was virtually the same as losing his life.

Current teaching can be found in the Revelation 11 lecture uploaded to youtube. It teaches that the 3.5 days are fulfilled between 30 Jan – 2 Feb 1981 as seen in this slide: screenshot of lecture and in the ‘Physical Fulfillment of Revelation’ book Page 245

Now we’ve seen the evidence, let’s compare what was previously taught with what is taught now:

Previous doctrine: The 3.5 days were figurative of the 3.5 years the two witnesses were stopped from fulfilling their duty. The two witnesses were imprisoned for 100 days followed by 2.5 years probation, but because the 100 days were at the end of the year, it was a new year by the time they were released so it can be considered a year: 1 + 2.5 = 3.5 years. Because they could not fulfill their duty during this time it was said they were spiritually dead.

Current doctrine: The 3.5 days were 3.5 literal days between 30 Jan 1981 – 2 Feb 1981.

2. The reed like a measuring rod in Rev 11:1

Page 155 translated:1. The staff, the reed, and the forty-two months of punishment

And he gave me a reed like a measuring rod, and said, Arise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it; but do not measure the court outside the temple, but leave it alone. (Rev 11:1~2)

Apostle John received and ate the little book in chapter 10. This time he receives a reed like a measuring rod. Receiving the little book and receiving the measuring rod and reeds are related, and they are both words from God.

Current doctrine teaches that the reed like a measuring rod was the second witness, as seen in the ‘Physical Fulfillment of Revelation’ book: Pages 229-230

Now we’ve seen the evidence, let’s compare what was previously taught with what is taught now:

Previous doctrine: the reed like a measuring rod was taught to be the word from God, and measuring with it was said to be synonymous with judgment, such as the judgment of fire.

Current doctrine: the reed like a measuring rod is taught to be the second witness. Measurement is evaluating people’s knowledge and faith.

3. The 7,000 killed in Rev 11:13

Page 171 translated: Now, the meaning of the number seven thousand is as follows. The seven shepherds and the ten elders united, gathered their counsel and wisdom, and did their best, but in the end they collapsed when the time came. This relationship can be explained as an equation as follows.

7 (Shepherd) X10 (Elder) x 100 (Full of Wisdom) = 7,000 (Babylon)

Therefore, the symbolic meaning of the saying that the seven thousand died is not the erroneous seven thousand who suffered physical death, but the elements of Babylon indicates that the bar is broken and thus the steering is sounded. Here, 100 with all wisdom and scheming is the number 10 multiplied by 10, the perfect number containing the highest and best meanings. When an organization or individual sets a goal and fully achieves it, it is expressed as 100% achieved. This means that everything has been accomplished. Thus, seven thousand is obtained by multiplying the number by 100.

Current doctrine teaches that the 7,000 killed were congregations members who died spiritually: screenshot of lecture and ‘Physical Fulfillment of Revelation’ page 247

Now we’ve seen the evidence, let’s compare what was previously taught with what is taught now:

Previous doctrine: The number 7,000 was interpreted symbolically as the leaders of the Tabernacle Temple, the 7 lampstands and the 10 elders (12 elders – 2 who left) not achieving their goal because they betrayed.

Current doctrine: The number 7,000 is interpreted as the number of congregation members who died spiritually.

4. The beast of the earth in Rev 13

Page 201 translation: And by having one of the 17 new pastors stand on the pulpit as a representative to give a benediction, the lamb (sheep) that was ordained by the beast was brought up from the earth to the platform.

Page 202 translation: It is a question of why all the 17 new pastors became beasts, but only the pastor who gave the benediction on this day was called the beast that came up from the earth.

Ceremony Paper from 1981.9.20 2pm, with zoom in on Prayer of BenedictionBlue box translation: Benediction … appointed pastor … Pastor Lee Cho-joo

Current doctrine teaches that the beast from the earth was Mr Oh (Oh Pyeong-ho)

Now we’ve seen the evidence, let’s compare what was previously taught with what is taught now:

Previous doctrine: It was taught that the beast from the earth was the pastor who gave the prayer of benediction, and was one of the 17 new pastors. Mr Oh was the moderator (did not give prayer of benediction) and not one of the 17 new pastors, while Lee Cho-joo was the pastor who gave prayer of benediction and one of the 17.

Current doctrine: It is now taught the beast of the earth was Mr Oh.

By examining the book ‘Revelation’s Reality’ (1985) we can see that there are many parts of SCJ’s doctrine which have been completely changed and not just added to. This shows that LMH has testified incorrectly about the fulfillment of Revelation in the past and sinned according to his own interpretation of Rev 22:18-19. By adding and taking away from his testimony of the physical fulfillment of Revelation LMH has proven that he did not receive the opened scroll from God or witness the physical fulfillment of all the events of the entire Book of Revelation.

Comments Section:

EmployerNew2915
Can I get a pdf? Again, like the other person, it keeps reloading.

LegalBathroom5549
May I have a working link for the pdf file, the page seems to keep reloading on my end. Thank you.

Hopeful-Knee1846
Regarding the 3 and a half days. This is what taught to us during our center class. October 27, 1980 LMH was detained due to libel case and he was out in prison in February 02, 1981. The 3 days and a half count is from January 30, 1981 until he got out in February 02. The instructor explained that during he was in jail, they were able still preach but 3 and a half days before Feb 2, they are not allowed to talk because they won’t be able to get out in jail. 🤔 I don’t know but, it doesn’t make any sense that you can’t talk freely just in the 3 and a half days before going out? But you can talk freely the time before that.

Beginning_Durian_595
The Steps for translating the Korean on the “pg #”:

1. Click on the “pg #” file on the post.
2. Screenshot the Korean, crop it down.
3. Go to photos.
4. Go to screenshots in photo library.
5. Select the screenshot with the Korean.
6. Select the “Copy Text” or “Lense” option for the screenshot.
7. Highlight the Korean text on the picture.
8. Select translate.
   Translation process complete. Korean text on the “pg #” translated to the language you can read.

Fearless_Chance2244
I am on my way of of SCJ and while asking my higher ups questions about doctrine changes, I was told that the 1985 book was written and edited by a man named Mr. Shin, who was one of the first antichrist and was greedy took matters into his own hands. He was an HQ worker, and when given the task of writing the 1985 revelation reality he purposely changed things. The doctrine change I was specifically speaking of was Mr. Oh not always being the beast of the earth. Does anyone know of this claims validity? Thanks.

↳ EmployerNew2915
How can he be the antichrist when the 7 stars were supposed to be part of Tabernacle Temple who betrayed? Is my understanding of antichrist from their standpoint wrong?

Late-Cell2910
Does anyone have a copy of the book in English?

↳ EmployerNew2915
Looking for the original book in Korean too!

Think-Being855
Thank you for putting a lot of effort into this. I wonder if you have other materials that show that it wasn’t Mr. Oh but Lee Chojoo who was known as the pastor of beast of the earth? The word 축도, does mean benediction or blessing but as the documents you provided the prayer of benediction is always shown as 축도 기도. In the Presbyterian church when they appoint new leaders there is always the “laying of hands” also known as a blessing/benediction.

Also what I remember they SCJ normally teaches that the reed or rod is the word and person with the word. The doctrine doesn’t seemed changed as other parables they teach normally mean word or person with the word.

I think the work you are doing is good, as it is important everyone checks in detail for themselves.

↳ LittleBird50
Actually, if you look at the ceremony paper it uses 축도 to mean benediction when it says Lee Cho-joo is the pastor appointed to give the prayer of benediction. Although the full word for prayer of benediction is 축복 기도 literally meaning “blessing prayer” it’s common to shorten this to 축도 as seen in the ceremony paper. We can also see 축도 in the excerpts of ‘Revelations Reality’ with suffixes, look for 축도를 and 축도한. By considering all the sentences together we can understand that it’s not saying the pastor who blessed the 17 new pastors was the beast of the earth, but that the pastor who blessed the congregation, i.e. the pastor who gave the benediction was the beast of the earth.

This video made by native Koreans confirms my interpretation too: YouTube Link.

Like I told the other SCJ member, if you were to answer an SCJ test asking “What was the reality of the reed-like measuring rod?” with “The word from God” you would be marked incorrect today, but in 1985 that’s what LMH was saying. The lecture also doesn’t teach that it’s both the word and the second witness, it just teaches the second witness.

Finally, you can already see through the changes in doctrine 1 and 3 that LMH has lied about receiving the open scroll and seeing and hearing all the events of Revelation. Rather than trying to excuse the other changes in doctrine I would encourage you to think why LMH’s doctrine has any changes. I hope you can think critically and find the strength to leave SCJ.

↳ Think-Being855
As a Korean speaker who grew up in a Korean Presbyterian church I know the words they use. I am not saying that 축도 can’t be interpreted as Benediction as both “benediction” and blessing” are similar words in English. But the churches I went to, they all use 촉도 as blessing and benediction as 촉도 긷도 or 촉복 기도.

Once again at a service to give people new positions in the church they always do a blessing before. The video you sent is ok but both SCJ and those putting effort to make videos against SCJ both have their own agendas and way to make the points they want to make.

I just wanted to share my view as I think most people here cannot speak or understand Korean.

↳ LittleBird50
Just look at the three sentences.
그리고 그 17인의 신임 목사 가운데서 한 사람을 대표로 강단에 세워 축도를 하게 함으로써 짐승으로부터 안수를 받은 새끼 (양) 짐승을 즉 땅에서 단상으로 올라오게 한 것이다.
그것은 17인의 신임 목사가 모두 짐승이 되었는데 왜 하필 이날, 축도한 목사만을 칭하여 땅에서 올라온 짐승이라 하였는가 하는 문제이다.
축도 … 임직목사 … 이초주목사

Whether you translate it as “benediction” or “blessed” doesn’t matter because the same term is used when referring to Lee Cho-joo and the beast of the earth. The first sentence also says the beast of the earth is one of the 17 pastors so it can’t be referring to Oh Pyeong-ho.

↳ Think-Being855
Korean uses the same term for many words. If you want to say “slice an apple” or “chop and apple” you use the same verb in Korean, even though slice and chop is different. Yes in the sentences you gave it says one of the 17 pastors who were ordained, which means that after the 17 pastors were ordained, then one of the 17 gave the benediction.

It is saying; why is the Beast of the Earth called the Beast of the Earth, when the 17 pastors also came from the “Earth” tabernacle. Like why are the 17 not called the beast of the earth but only the one who blessed them (laying of hands) on that day.

But I can understand, as you do not seem well acquainted with the Korean language. Anyways Korean is hard, keep studying though!

QuestionsAboutSCJ
The above video also confirms LittleBirds translation as well. Considering that SCJ is also known to lie in order to “cover” for each other, logically it would make sense to trust LittleBirds translation over a current member whose trying to discredit OP’s translation.

Also, this wouldn’t be the first time that there was an update or “new detail” revealed in terms of the doctrine or fulfillment, as discussed extensively with Revelation 7 and the 144k in other threads on this subreddit.

↳ Think-Being855
You do know this video is in English right? I am speaking from one who understands Korean to help, I am not a current member of SCJ and I am glad little bird is doing this work, I am just helping as someone who knows Korean to people on this community whom I guess don’t know it well.

↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ
The video is from a church leader in Korea who defected from this sect, read the same book which was written by MHL, and came to the same conclusion that Little Bird made in his translation of this book.

Not sure why the video being in English discredits the claim. So far there are 3 independent sources that are confirming this translation, versus a current SCJ member whose claiming that all 3 independent sources are incorrect.

Taking into consideration of how SCJ is known to lie, or use “wisdom”, and knowing how SCJ is also attacking other videos that also discredits their cult like Kim’s video, I’m going to use a reasonable assumption that Little Birds interpretation is accurate.

Edit: the sources are: the video referenced by Little Bird, the user Little Bird himself, and the testimony of a Korean church leader who left SCJ.

Aggravating-Cat3017
I would love to hear about our SCJ members and how they can refute these claims 👀👀

↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ
So far the only thing that they have is to try to discredit the translation. They really don’t have a valid argument against it, as there are other sources that also backs the interpretations Little Bird has made.

They also have a history of blaming the publisher for older SCJ books for being “incorrect”. Anyways, I’m sure we are going to see more SCJ people “stumble” upon this subreddit as time continues.

JAppropriate5
Can I please get a picture of the 7000 members that had spiritual death?

themilkygalaxy
Thank you for sharing! 🙂 May I have the link to the pdf please?

↳ LittleBird50
I’ve added the link to the post 🙂

[deleted]
Thank you for writing this! Posts like these helped me objectively challenge and eventually leave SCJ. Since I left, I haven’t doubted that SCJ made glaring inconsistencies, but I’m curious as to why LMH would change major events and entities.

↳ LittleBird50
Basically what QuestionsAboutSCJ said. You can see with the changes mentioned in this post that the updates tend to “improve” the doctrine by either making more sense or explaining some event.

1. 3.5 days as 3.5 years doesn’t really make sense because the 100 days isn’t a year so they were only in jail + probation for less than 3 years, and it’s a bit odd for the fulfillment to be 3.5 years when the prophecy was 3.5 days.
2. Reed like a measuring rod being the second witness helps to explain why LMH’s right hand man at the time left. Mr Hong was with LMH from even before they founded SCJ (was in Mr Baek’s recreation church with LMH) and was an important figure in SCJ, so for him to leave would have been a huge deal for the small church SCJ was at that time. For it to be part of the prophecy would have eased a lot of member’s concerns.
3. The previous explanation for the 7,000 killed is basically numerology and I’m guessing even LMH felt it was a stretch, but at that time many SCJ members were probably familiar with the Tabernacle Temple and knew the number of members who were affected wasn’t exactly 7,000 so LMH had to create some symbolic meaning. Even today this 7,000 is often brushed over, but because almost no one is familiar with the Tabernacle Temple now they can more easily say it was the number of congregation members.
4. I’m not certain about why the beast of the earth changed from Lee Cho-joo to Oh Pyeong-ho. Considering this was written in 1985 I assume LMH was still figuring out his doctrine and perhaps Lee Cho-joo seemed more influential than Oh Pyeong-ho, despite Oh Pyeong-ho’s position. It also may not yet have been known that Oh Pyeong-ho spoke to Yoo Jae-yeol and convinced him to bring the church under Presbyterianism.

The other thing to realise is that there’s practically no consequence to LMH changing doctrine because of the indoctrination of his congregation members and the control of information within SCJ. New members aren’t even remotely aware of doctrine changes in the past and they’re conditioned against searching for it with the “poison” teaching, and current members often don’t question changes because they aren’t explicitly talked about. These kind of changes generally happen silently, meaning no one announces them but the teaching is updated for future educations. If they’re brought up by members then leaders may gaslight and explain the teachings are the same, or that CHJN never taught that but some leaders did by mistake, or that small details like this are ok to update as long as the big picture stays the same.

↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ

Mostly to cover himself. We see this happen in other sects as well like the Jehovah Witnesses and the WMSCOG.
For SCJ, the latest example would be how Revelation 7 was updated after the Great Tribulation started before the 12,000 per tribes were sealed.
For the Jehovah Witnesses, there have been multiple failed prophecies where their doctrines
were also updated as a continous revealing scroll.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions
For the WMSCOG: they also have a similar set of failed predictions like the JW’s and SCJ, and you can see another article take a look at their failed prophecies below:
https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/the-wmscogs-failed-doomsday-predictions-1988-1999-2012-what-will-they-predict-next/

RedPilledSojourner
Great job LB!

Aggravating-Cat3017
Masterfully done!! This is amazing! We need to keep this thread archived!!!!!

QuestionsAboutSCJ
Wow, great job and thank you for putting in the effort for doing this.