High Rank Leader gives insights: FAKE 100k celebrations, embezzled funds, LMHs affairs etc.

A former high-ranking member shares insider revelations about financial embezzlement, fabricated membership numbers, and leadership scandals, including moral and organizational issues within the group.
Detailed Summary for [High Rank Leader gives insights: FAKE 100k celebrations, embezzled funds, LMHs affairs etc.]
[00:00] The interview features a high-ranking leader discussing their long history and involvement with the organization, providing insights into its structure and roles within the community.
– The introduction of the interview, expressing excitement about the guest’s participation.}
– The leader shares their entry into the organization, dating back to 1991.}
– Details about the leader’s progression within the organization, highlighting their significant tenure.}
– An explanation of the organization’s structure and the roles of its members.}
– Discussion on the specific roles within the organization, including the responsibilities of various leaders.}

[07:36] The video discusses the emergence of issues related to embezzlement and moral problems within an organization, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. It highlights the challenges faced by a leader in addressing these issues and the legal consequences that followed.
– The onset of problems related to financial misconduct is linked to the COVID-19 pandemic.}
– The leader faced legal judgment due to administrative issues and was required to undergo trial.}
– There is a suggestion that the leader relied on worldly counsel rather than placing trust in divine guidance.}
– The government took measures to prevent the spread of issues related to the organization during the pandemic.}

[15:12] In this segment, a leader discusses the emotional impact of a controversial event involving a celebration and the need for transparency regarding its implications.
– The leader expresses the difficulty in reporting certain issues, indicating a sense of obligation to speak out.}
– The leader acknowledges the wrongness of the situation, emphasizing the emotional wounds caused to many involved.}
– There is a suggestion to accept the event as a spiritual celebration, indicating a desire for reconciliation.}
– The leader raises further questions about the implications of the event, hinting at ongoing concerns among the community.}
– The response from a senior figure suggests that there may have been a deliberate creation of misleading narratives regarding the event.}

[22:51] The video discusses the complexities surrounding a leader’s public persona and private dealings, including the perception of celebrations and personal interactions.
– The speaker reflects on the difficulties in discussing certain topics openly.}
– There is skepticism about whether the leader is fully aware of the discussions happening around him.}
– The speaker mentions the challenge of obtaining concrete evidence regarding the leader’s actions.}
– The leader is described as someone who enjoys socializing and engaging in cultural discussions.}
– The speaker reflects on their initial impressions of the leader, indicating a complex character.}

[30:29] The video discusses the infiltration and manipulation of religious organizations, focusing on the deceptive practices employed by certain leaders to gain control and influence over their members.
– Introduction to the concept of living a normal faith life without ulterior motives.}
– Discussion on how organizations began to infiltrate churches and manipulate missions.}
– The rise of evangelists who started educating members as numbers grew, leading to increased influence.}
– Recognition of societal issues arising from these manipulative practices and the struggles faced by members.}
– Shift towards covert evangelism as the situation became more challenging for the organization.}

[38:06] The discussion revolves around the discrepancies in reported membership numbers of a religious group, questioning the validity of their claimed figures and the implications of such claims.
– The speaker references a claimed number of 100,000 members and emphasizes that if true, the total should be much higher.}
– There is skepticism about the actual membership numbers, suggesting that the claimed figures do not align with reality.}
– The speaker points out that the official numbers provided by the organization have been significantly lower than the claims, raising questions about the missing members.}
– The discussion concludes with a reflection on the absurdity of the claims, indicating a lack of credible evidence to support the inflated membership figures.}

[45:43] The video discusses insights into the controversial practices and revelations surrounding a specific group, focusing on its history, recent scrutiny, and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on its public perception.
– The speaker talks about the role of leaders in gathering followers and their influence within the community.}
– The speaker reflects on their long-term membership and experiences, providing insight into the changes that have occurred over the decades.}
– There is a discussion about the increased public interest and scrutiny of the group following the COVID-19 pandemic, leading to many revelations.}
– The speaker mentions that many negative aspects of the group are beginning to surface as investigations continue.}

[53:20] The video discusses concerns about a leader’s declining mental health and the potential implications for the organization, including fears of fragmentation and the rise of sects after the leader’s death.
– The leader shows early signs of dementia, raising concerns about their ability to lead effectively.}
– There are worries about what will happen to the organization if the leader passes away, with speculation about divisions forming within the group.}
– The possibility of the leader developing Alzheimer’s is mentioned, highlighting the lack of a clear successor and the uncertainty it brings.}

The interview was translated from German (Simon) and Korean (Mr. Noh).

High Rank Leader gives insights: FAKE 100k celebrations, embezzled funds, LMHs affairs etc.

[0:00] Introduction and explanation of the SCJ structure

[Simon]
Good day, Mr. Noh. I’m very pleased that you have agreed to participate in this interview. You were appointed by Lee Man-hee as one of the department heads—a distinction that is truly special—and we are honored to have you with us today. Could you tell us when you joined Shincheonji and until when you remained a member?

[Mr. Noh]
I first became aware of Shincheonji in 1991 when I initially left Yeongdeungpo Church. Then, in 1995, as the organizational structure was being established, I began working at the General Headquarters as part of the John Tribe. I remained with Shincheonji for about 30 years, until last September.

[Simon]
Since you have been a member for such a long time and know the organization well, could you briefly explain the structure of Shincheonji for those who are not familiar with it? Specifically, what is meant by the “Organization of the Throne” and what does it signify that you were one of the 24? Where in the Bible is this concept anchored, and what roles does it entail?

[Mr. Noh]
Within Shincheonji, there are three main tiers of leadership: the Seven Educators, the 12 Tribe Leaders, and the 24 Elders. The Seven Educators are primarily responsible for teaching and overseeing matters of gratitude. The 12 Tribe Leaders manage the spiritual care and faith of the believers within the respective 12 tribes. The 24 Elders handle all administrative tasks in Shincheonji, with each Elder overseeing duties pertinent to their area of responsibility. I, for my part, was charged with the overall management of these administrative tasks.

[Simon]
So, this structure is modeled after Revelation 4, isn’t it? In Revelation 4:4, it says, “And around the throne were 24 thrones, and on the thrones sat 24 elders.” In this context, you and 23 others are identified as those who received this mandate. Is that correct?

[Mr. Noh]
Yes, exactly. Just as there are thrones in heaven, here on earth a similar structure was established—a kind of administrative framework. It wasn’t merely about receiving; all 24 simultaneously received their mandate from the General Assembly.

[Simon]
Wow, I now have someone before me who was deeply involved in the inner workings of Shincheonji—a perfect person to shed light on both the teachings and the organizational structure of the group. How close were you to Lee Man-hee? How often did you see him or speak with him over the years?

[Mr. Noh]
From the time I joined Shincheonji until I left, I did not work directly with the president; rather, I served at the General Headquarters under his direction.

[05:10] What made him doubt LMH?

[Simon]
I understand that there came a time when doubts about Lee Man-hee began to emerge. When you first encountered Shincheonji and learned about the chairman, you and the others believed—on biblical grounds—that he was a deified figure, a true manifestation of the pastor sent by Jesus. Is that right?

[Mr. Noh]
Yes, initially we worshipped him almost as if he were divine, completely captivated by his presence, so much so that I had no doubts about his role as chairman at first. However, when COVID-19 emerged, I began to notice discrepancies in the doctrinal teachings associated with him. Gradually, many questions arose, and I started researching extensively. That was when I came to understand what kind of person Lee Man-hee truly was.

[Simon]
So, the awakening began when you realized that, despite having always believed him to be the pastor sent by Jesus, evidence started emerging—triggered by the COVID-19 situation—revealing issues such as embezzlement of funds and various ethical and moral problems. Is that accurate?

[Mr. Noh]
Exactly. The revelations unfolded one by one. At that time, I’m not entirely sure how best to describe it, but essentially, due to his mismanagement of administrative funds, he ended up facing legal judgment. During the trial, if he were truly the pastor sent by Jesus, he should have entrusted everything to God and acted with absolute integrity. Instead, he relied on worldly legal counsel and behaved in a manner unworthy of a divine representative. That led many of us within Shincheonji to seriously doubt his true role.

[Simon]:
And regarding the government’s involvement during the pandemic—when they requested a list of Shincheonji members to control the spread—the General Assembly concealed the entire list, providing it only to a few. Later, the government eventually obtained the full list through searches, and everything was exposed. This, too, contributed to the mounting doubts.

If one is united in the flesh and ultimately destined to be God’s people, shouldn’t one scrutinize the integrity and trustworthiness of their leader more closely? That is precisely why we are here discussing Lee Man-hee and examining these facts from his life. What did you observe about him that made you uneasy regarding his moral character?

[11:25] LMHs affair with Kim Nam-Hee

[Mr. Noh]
Regarding integrity—no, as believers like us, such matters should never occur. As I recall, back in 2012, during the HWPL event, while also handling Shincheonji’s physical education activities, there was an event where Lee Man-hee, the Chairman, and Director Kim Nam-hee held what was called a ‘spiritual wedding feast.’ They presented it using terms like ‘the meeting of light with light’ and even ‘the Mother of All People’—all incorporated into what they referred to as a ‘mass game.’ The shock from that event was tremendous. Late that night, as rain began to fall, they proceeded with the ceremony despite how inappropriate it felt. I wasn’t in a position to speak up at the time. After the event ended, the next day the Chairman did not come to the general meeting as I had prepared to meet him to share my concerns. When he finally went to work at the meeting the following day, I had a chance to interview him.

I told him that during the event—the spiritual wedding feast—we had witnessed things that deeply shocked many believers. I asked him, “Did it really have to be done that way?” In response, the Chairman, in effect, challenged me by saying, “This is clearly a biblical spiritual wedding feast. Why is that a problem? And why are you bringing it up to me?” I then pressed further, noting that there were many negative rumors and poor perceptions regarding both him and Director Kim Nam-hee. I asked if it was really necessary for them to personally conduct such a wedding feast. I expressed that it would have been far better if, after holding such an event without employing any mediators, they had spoken honestly about it. When believers witnessed it firsthand, they saw it in a very negative light. In fact, even the congregants in the auditorium began whispering among themselves.

I asked the Chairman whether the educators and leaders had ever reported these issues to him—and he said they had not. Of course, they probably couldn’t report it. In the end, I told him plainly that I believed this was seriously wrong—conducting a spiritual wedding feast without any mediation has caused deep emotional wounds among countless believers. After a long silence, he finally said that he wished we could simply accept the event as nothing more than a spiritual wedding feast in accordance with Scripture. I then asked another question about the terminology they used—for example, phrases like ‘the meeting of light with light’ and ‘the Mother of All People,’ which were incorporated into that mass game. Even those words shocked many of our believers. When I mentioned this, the Chairman replied, “I don’t really know; perhaps it was something Director Kim Nam-hee devised.” I found that utterly absurd. Although he had attempted to benefit from such fabrications, I persisted with my questions. In the end, he said, “Alright, let’s continue discussing this until we reach an understanding. I promise you, I will accept everything as it is. But if there are any mistakes, I will correct them one by one.” That was his promise to me. I truly appreciate that, but he must follow through. He then added, “Trust me—I will fix everything promptly.

[Simon]
And regarding what has hurt people—what message was being signaled? We must perhaps understand the implications. What is meant by ‘the Mother of All’—could it also indicate the future role of Kim? I mean, eventually, she distanced herself and now refers to Lee as nothing more than a money swindler. What has been set in motion regarding her role?

[Mr. Noh]
Originally, the Chairman’s residence was in Gwacheon, and his wife also resided there. Later, the Chairman and Director Kim Nam-hee lived together almost continuously in what was called the ‘Palace of Peace.’ Whether seen by outsiders or by us, such arrangements are far from acceptable. These details have only recently surfaced on YouTube, circulating from one account to another and quickly spreading. As a result, regarding the way in which a Shincheonji believer—someone like Kim Jang and others—conducted himself, we were utterly unprepared and felt profoundly betrayed. It is inconceivable that a clergyman—and certainly not a humble shepherd whom we regard as the promised shepherd sent by Jesus with His spirit—should behave in this manner. Such actions have raised serious ethical and moral concerns.

[Simon]
In Germany, some people have seen that interview where she presented letters and played messages. She skillfully provided evidence, and even people from the Shincheonji circle in Korea have taken photos of both of them. There is, essentially, nothing left to hide. Some are even forced to swallow these revelations in order to make their claims appear more credible. Now, some say, ‘Think of what you believe about Kim.’ Yet, here they come out and claim, quite openly, that they once lived together in the Peace Palace. Who knew about that? Clearly not the entire community, but some certainly did.”

[Mr. Noh]
We had suspected something was amiss, and many YouTubers captured long-distance footage that confirmed it: the two were living and working together. We knew this from what we observed—even if our eyes witnessed it, the concrete evidence was only brought forward by these YouTubers, and soon the world began to learn about it.

And regarding how they handled the aftermath—well, I can’t really say much. We do not know whether he even watches those YouTube videos; everyone outside seems to know, but internally, it appears that the Chairman did not extend his knowledge to that point. After all, it isn’t a subject he can easily address, nor are such matters something he would openly discuss.

[23:30 ] Change in LMH’s character

[Mr. Noh]
At times, when certain controversies arise, the aides who serve under our General Assembly Leader hesitate to speak openly. They seem to think that, because of my shortcomings, such issues should not be brought directly to the Leader’s attention. We were never really in a position to secure any definitive proof regarding those matters.

[Simon]
Can you imagine this man? It’s as if, in his leisure time, he enjoys a good round of cards. I’ve seen pictures where he appears to do that. When you visit his home, he has a cupboard filled with books—books on art, culture, music, life, and even the Bible. What kind of person is this ‘New John’?

[Mr. Noh]
When we first encountered him, we regarded him as exceptionally pious and sincere. He was seen as someone so genuinely kind and diligent that we truly believed he was a shepherd sent by Jesus. He spared no effort and was extremely careful with everything he managed—in those early days, there was absolutely no room for doubt about his character.

Later, however, our headquarters—the headquarters of the ‘John Tribe’—moved to Gwacheon in October 1999. From that point on, Shincheonji began to grow in earnest. As the organization expanded, things started to change. In the beginning, there was no question about his kind and exemplary nature; he was someone we could always look up to. But as the number of believers increased and the organization grew larger, changes began to appear in his behavior.”

[Simon]
Now, how did this success affect Lee Man-hee’s character? What were the consequences? Did he treat people differently? How did he handle money? For example, did he begin to demand more attention, respect, and unquestioning loyalty from those around him? It seems as if a sort of personal cult developed around him. I’m very interested in how these dynamics evolved over the years.

[Mr. Noh]
As the number of believers grew, he was able to undertake many new initiatives. With a rapidly increasing membership, the focus shifted entirely toward evangelism. Consequently, both the General Assembly Leader’s mindset and that of the believers became singularly fixated on achieving this historic mission as quickly as possible. In the process, the roles within families began to suffer. For instance, wives and mothers found themselves unable to fulfill their traditional roles, while men—expected to be the heads of their households—could not adequately support their families. Meanwhile, the youth, who should have been concentrating on their studies, became so absorbed in evangelism that many ended up taking leaves of absence from school.

As time went on and Shincheonji expanded further, these pressures intensified. The relentless push for evangelism led to severe consequences: households began to crumble, students drifted away from their academic lives, and even the working adults found themselves increasingly disconnected from their jobs. All this was done in the name of hastening the fulfillment of a grand, historical vision.

[30:00] Increasing pressure to go on a mission. Beginning of the secret mission

[Simon]
It’s very interesting—I understand you to mean that the pressure on the members has increased. I’ve heard stories of people in Germany and here in Korea who drop out of their studies and become less present for their families. Back then, as a member, one could lead a relatively normal life of faith without everything revolving solely around the mission.

[Mr. Noh]
At first, he didn’t speak up much.

[Simon]
Because they started to lie and deceive during their evangelistic efforts—by infiltrating churches and conducting covert evangelism—was that the case from the very beginning, or did it develop later?

[Mr. Noh]
When we first joined Shincheonji, there were hardly any mistakes or deviations. But as the movement spread nationwide, those who were recognized for their effective evangelism eventually became designated evangelists. They began to train the believers. As the numbers grew, they undertook more activities, and gradually, those methods started to take hold.

[Mr. Noh]
In fact, even among mainstream Christians, these ideas began to be accepted, and our Shincheonji believers, too, gradually embraced them.

[Mr. Noh]
However, as time went on, these practices started to become socially problematic, and our believers began to struggle with them. Since the opposition became less receptive, from that point onward, they launched an all-out, covert evangelism campaign to hide our true identity. They even went as far as posting signs banning Shincheonji from established church premises, and that had a significant impact.

[Mr. Noh]
To be specific, once we embarked on that evangelistic campaign, it became even bolder. This stirred up considerable controversy in society, and even the established churches eventually came to completely repudiate Shincheonji. I can’t recall the exact number of years—my memory doesn’t allow me to pinpoint it precisely—but why did it come to that?

[Mr. Noh]
They kept insisting, “It will soon be accomplished; it will come to pass.” For about two to three years, they pushed the message relentlessly, claiming that in two or three years, everything would be fulfilled—if not by next year, then by the year after. Then that timeline was altered again to “It will soon come to pass, very soon.” In their desperate desire to see history fulfilled as quickly as possible, the believers resorted to every method available. As a result, falsehoods and lies became rampant.

[34:42] Wrong numbers at 100,000th graduation ceremonies

[Simon]
In this context, various numbers are repeatedly mentioned, raising the question: How do you really believe these numbers? They say that in 2023, there were several hundred thousand closing ceremonies. At these 100,000-member graduation ceremonies, did that many new people really join Shincheonji, or is the figure composed in some other way? Since you were involved in the organization, perhaps you can shed some light on what the true story is behind these 100,000 graduation ceremonies.

[Mr. Noh]
No one in Shincheonji actually believes those numbers.

[Simon]
Why not? I mean, that’s what is commonly said.

[Mr. Noh]
If it is claimed that such a number was achieved at a graduation ceremony, then the number of Shincheonji believers must have grown by that same amount. For example, if the growth reached 100,000 at one point, then later another 100,000 should have been added, and so on. Yet, the number remains unchanged. Even though they held the so-called “man-su” ceremony three times, I doubt that any true believer in Shincheonji would accept those figures. (Applause) I don’t remember all the exact numbers, so please allow me to explain a bit.

[Mr. Noh]
Previously, I mentioned that in October 1999 our sanctuary relocated to Gwacheon. After that move, by 2008 there were about 51,000 members. Over the following years, as evangelism progressed gradually, the number reached roughly 203,000 by 2018. Then, the next year, an additional 100,000 completions were reported. In theory, adding those numbers should bring the total to about 306,000. I can’t detail every figure due to time constraints.

Furthermore, in 2022 another 100,000 completions were recorded—making the total approximately 450,000. Then in 2023, they claim another 100,000 completions. If Shincheonji were truly achieving 100,000 completions each time, the overall number should come to about 550,000. But do these numbers actually exist? I don’t think any Shincheonji believer really accepts them.

If we assume there are 550,000 members, that would be extraordinary. However, officially—up until I left last year—they only spoke of around 300,000 members. So, where did the additional 200,000 go?

[Simon]
Now, my question to you—which I used to ask when you were still with us until last year—is: What is with these numbers? Surely there must have been discussions after 2019. Perhaps some Korean believers might argue that most of the members are overseas. I don’t agree with that. And then, another 20,000 or 20,000—this is so absurd that anyone can see it. How is it that he isn’t a bit modest and instead holds closing ceremonies with 50,000 participants? That’s an absurd number that clearly no one believes. Why do people accept these figures? Why does everyone seem to drop out? I just can’t make sense of it.

[Mr. Noh]
The General Assembly Leader has indeed made tremendous efforts to ignite the fire of evangelism among the believers. As a result, the members have fully committed to spreading the faith. This, however, has made established churches increasingly wary of Shincheonji. Because of that, the General Assembly Leader told us that as the world is soon to become God’s Kingdom—and since mainstream church pastors and congregants are oppressing Shincheonji so harshly—we must reach at least 600,000 members. Only then will the government and traditional churches be forced to take us seriously. In short, he urged us to work even harder to quickly reach 600,000 members.

The believers, always eager and quick to spread the message, have been thinking along these lines year after year—aiming to fill that 600,000 quota. They made significant efforts in 2019, then again in 2022 and 2023. Based on those numbers, it would be normal for Shincheonji to have between 550,000 and 600,000 members. Yet, the official figures from the General Assembly report only around 323,000 members. As for the discrepancy, we believe that due to COVID-19—and also because of issues involving the General Assembly Leader, such as the controversies surrounding Yoon Deok-in—many members have left.

[43:07] Non-Koreans before the foreign mission

[Mr. Noh]
Isn’t that so?

[Simon]
They have been involved for such a long time now, and they still remember the period before the overseas mission.

[Simon]
I’m curious—what did people back then think about the role of non-Koreans? How were non-Korean elements regarded in theology, especially concerning the 144,000 and the ‘White Shrine’ (a term referring to the purity and select nature of the chosen group)? Or was it simply taken for granted?

[Mr. Noh]
In the beginning, we were carefully keeping track of the numbers of those who would be saved.

[Simon]
And then it was believed—almost taken for granted—that this concept would naturally take shape. But was it just an idea, or was it formally integrated into the worship services across different congregations?

[Mr. Noh]
They explained that the priesthood would be composed of 14,000 domestic believers. When you include those overseas, it was presented purely in terms of the 12 tribes. Each tribe would contribute 12,000 members, adding up to a total of 144,000 who would become priests. These individuals would then serve as pastors, leading Shincheonji and, in a sense, guiding the entire global Christian community. In other words, they would become ordained priests at no cost, and these 144,000 would go forth to bring about what they called ‘nationwide lawsuits’—essentially, they would work to transform the nations of the world into God’s kingdom. Because these 144,000 were meant to hold such important priestly offices, true Shincheonji believers took immense pride and stood firm in their faith.

[Simon]
In the eyes of the Korean ‘saints’—or Korean members—those considered second-class in their spiritual status, it was said that only Koreans would make up this group. For example, in Germany it’s even claimed that all the devout are Koreans, or at least that’s the impression. But anyway… That’s very interesting to hear from you. As someone who was a member from 1991 until 2023, you have been involved for so long that you really have insight into what unfolded over the decades. I’m eager to know from you whether things were truly like that back then.

[47:00] Which teachings have been changed?

[Simon]
Were there teachings in the past that have since been changed? And if so, what things are no longer taught today as they once were, or are taught differently now?

[Mr. Noh]
It has gradually changed on its own, little by little, but I never really thought about it too seriously. However, after COVID-19, when many people began taking a keen interest in Shincheonji and started digging into it, a great many things began to come to light. Over the past four years, it has become almost impossible not to reveal Shincheonji’s true foundations. Before that, although established churches criticized Shincheonji for being deeply flawed, internally we never actually thought so.

The reason we were so captivated by Shincheonji’s doctrine was that it introduced elements we had never encountered in mainstream churches—unique allegorical interpretations and insights into ultimate realities that simply aren’t present in traditional teachings. After living in conventional church settings and then encountering Shincheonji, you start to learn about terms like “Pribu” and “Sian Namu-Sae” (unique Shincheonji terminologies), and your eyes open to new perspectives. Moreover, because these teachings align with the Bible—and they even supplement biblical passages, especially from Revelation—we came to believe without hesitation that there was no doctrine superior to this.

[Simon]
Yes, what was taught about the two witnesses? That’s one example frequently mentioned in interviews—it was taught differently in the past than it is today. Do you know?

[Mr. Noh]
When I first got involved with Shincheonji, we learned that the chairman and Mr. Hong were identified as the two witnesses. Later on, things changed—Mr. Hong Jung-ho left Shincheonji, leaving only the chairman. After that, it was taught that the two witnesses consisted of the chairman himself and the chief educator.

To put it simply, the reality has shifted. The fact that the chairman received ordination keeps changing year after year—multiple times, in fact—making it hard to believe. Why should it change when, under normal circumstances, it wouldn’t? And then there’s the matter of the books they used; it all led people to dig even deeper. What once made us firmly believe that Shincheonji’s doctrine was true began to be questioned. When you listen to the chairman’s sermons, you notice that, unlike pastors from established churches, he would set aside the Bible and deliver sermons that systematically cover everything from Genesis to Revelation. We were all captivated by that approach, thinking, “This is the real Shincheonji.”

But starting about three or four years ago, problems with Shincheonji’s doctrine began to surface on various YouTube channels. Since then, people have come to learn many things, and now they’re even realizing that Shincheonji’s core doctrine is essentially contrived—everything is force-fitted into a framework of their own making. Consequently, all the veneration once directed toward the chairman has now collapsed.

[Simon]
These might be points that challenge what I’ve been saying, but I’d still be interested in hearing your final thoughts, especially since you only recently…

[53:03] LMH’s poor health

[Simon]
The year is 2023, and over the past few years—and even decades—you have witnessed it. How has his health condition developed, both physically and mentally? It appears that he is already showing the first signs of dementia and is no longer in proper physical condition, as has been observed from the outside. Perhaps you could elaborate on that briefly?

[Simon]
The intriguing question is: What will happen if he dies? One can easily imagine that everything will splinter into various sects. In Korea alone, there are already several offshoots. Many members will leave, and others will disperse into different sects. I find it very interesting—and frankly concerning—to ask: What if this man develops Alzheimer’s? He hasn’t yet designated a new successor himself, and that raises many questions.

[Mr. Noh]
But now, looking at it, I find this to be an extremely shocking issue. We have always believed that he—and indeed all Shincheonji believers—would live eternally. Yet if, as he partakes in the divine communion, he begins to weaken, and his mental state deteriorates, it is truly startling. When I witnessed this shocking decline, I wondered how history would change. We’ll have to wait and see, because although I was deeply shocked, I can say that not everyone remaining has been as unaffected as I have. In my view, it is extremely disturbing. When a person reaches that age, it is said that decline is natural; however, in reality, when it comes to terms like Alzheimer’s or dementia, those are labels often used by outsiders. We have not seen any confirmed medical diagnoses ourselves, which makes the situation all the more serious. It is a huge problem—perhaps even the end of Shincheonji’s history. We all harbor these doubts. In short, it is simply shocking.

[Simon]
I thank you, gentlemen, for taking the time today.

[57:20] Final words

[Simon]
I think it’s wonderful that you have left Shincheonji. I wish you all the best for your future. I can imagine that after so many decades, it must be a real challenge to rebuild and reshape your life. I pray that you receive God’s blessing in this new direction, and I thank you for all the valuable information you have provided to our viewers today. We hope that it will inspire many to reflect and even change their perspective.

[Mr. Noh]
Well, I agree with that. In any case, the fact that Shincheonji is wrong—beyond just a doctrinal issue—leaves no room for excuses anymore. For those of us who have devoted our entire ministry to Shincheonji and have spent over 30 years of our lives involved with it, our task now is to reach out to those believers who, without being influenced by misleading YouTubers and similar sources, still do not truly understand what is happening inside Shincheonji. We must work to help them quickly realize that Shincheonji is in error and to empower them to leave. Additionally, we have a duty to prevent members of established churches from being drawn into Shincheonji’s evangelism.

Many have already left Shincheonji, and efforts continue. As far as I know, the pastor has even come all the way to Germany for this discussion. I sincerely hope that by going to Germany, even a little, we can prevent Shincheonji from gaining any foothold in the world. We will continue our efforts here, and I would be very grateful if the pastor—and many other Christians—could actively work to ensure that people do not fall prey to Shincheonji. Thank you very much for your dedicated efforts today.

[Simon]

Thank you.