SCJ Bible Study Open Questions and Answers Part 4

ANSWER

[Student 1]
One group had enough oil, which allowed them to last longer.

[Instructor]
Correct. One group had a sufficient amount of oil, while the other ran out.

The oil we need to acquire is the word of testimony. Two witnesses receive or give testimony, and we need to receive that testimony.

Currently, only one witness remains: New John. We’ll understand why when we reach Revelation 11. We also discussed how to prepare by studying parables and understanding God’s logic, which were covered in the intro and intermediate levels. Now, we’ll be delving into Revelation.

I’m very excited about Revelation. I know you’ve been eagerly waiting.

ANSWER

We’ll explore that in Revelation 11. As we go through each chapter starting next week, we’ll gain a better understanding of the timeframe. It’s important to note that in Revelation, some chapters describe events that happen quickly, while others detail long-running events that occur over time.

Prophecy usually focuses on the end of something. The prophecy often shows the end state of an event, but you don’t always see all the things leading up to it until you hear the testimony. In Revelation chapter 11, there’s a lot that happens before and during the events that we may not be fully aware of until we hear the testimony. We’ll examine Revelation chapter 11 to learn more.

 

Revelation 11:1-4
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”

 

John’s perspective is present throughout the book of Revelation, including this chapter. In every chapter of Revelation, there is evidence of John seeing or hearing, as indicated by phrases like “Then I saw,” “I heard,” or “it was shown to me.”

John is one of the two witnesses in Revelation. The other witness is actually the reed. This understanding was not possible before the word was opened. We first had to learn what a reed is and that someone needs to witness these events and testify. Even after reading Revelation 11 numerous times, one might not conclude that the reed is one of the witnesses. We can now say this because it has been fulfilled.

[Student 1]
But right now, we only have one witness.

[Instructor]
Yes, there is only one remaining witness. Let’s first understand what it means to be a reed.

If we look at Matthew chapter 11, we find someone else who was also called a reed.

 

Matthew 11:1-8
After Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns of Galilee.
2 When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?”
4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. 6 Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
7 As John’s disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: “What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind?
8 If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings’ palaces.

 

John, now imprisoned, hears about Jesus preaching in Galilee towns. He instructs his disciples to ask Jesus, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?” This question stems from doubt, not faith. We discussed why this happened to John, as he kept bad company.

In Matthew 9:14, John spent time with Pharisees and Sadducees who didn’t understand why Jesus began preaching in Galilee. This confusion is evident in John chapter 7. The Pharisees and Sadducees poisoned John the Baptist’s heart against Jesus’s word.

John 7:49-52 shows their confusion about Jesus preaching in Galilee. When John heard about this, he recalled the Pharisees’ claim that no prophet comes from Galilee. Jesus asked, “What did you go out into the desert to see?”

Where did John the Baptist start preaching?

[Student 1]
In the desert.

[Instructor]
Correct. Jesus was referring to John when he mentioned a reed swayed by the wind. This imagery in Revelation 11 should remind us of someone who started well but wavered.

That’s why only one witness remains: New John.

Returning to Revelation 11, when John receives the reed, they have a task to fulfill. They must measure the temple, but not the outer court. We’ll discuss the outer court’s significance later. Initially, they had a duty to fulfill for a specific time period:

1,260 days, or 42 months, or 3.5 years.

These are all the same time period, known as the period of destruction. Revelation 11 takes place during this time. The two witnesses are telling people in the temple that they are being destroyed.

To clarify, the two witnesses are new John and his helper, whom we’ll meet in Revelation 11. However, the helper is no longer present because he was a reed.

ANSWER

[Instructor]
That’s not what I stated.

We’ve progressed beyond Revelation 11, 12, and 13. We’re currently in 14.

14 is unfolding now. 15 has already taken place. 16 has occurred as well.

[Student 1]
What about Revelation 7?

[Instructor]
7 is still ongoing.

[Student 1]
So the events aren’t occurring in the order of the chapters?

[Instructor]
No. Remember, the chapters tend to describe the final state. For example, New John sees the great multitude holding palm branches.

That’s the end state. We can only understand how it happens when things are being fulfilled.

[Student 1]
So which chapters are not yet fulfilled or still awaiting fulfillment? In today’s lesson, it’s mentioned that Jesus can return at any time, Jesus is coming back soon, and the wedding is approaching, so Jesus can return.

So essentially, everything could happen at any moment?

[Instructor]
A large portion of Revelation has already been fulfilled. This will become very clear as we study.

We’re nearly finished.

ANSWER

[Instructor]
The new song is currently spreading throughout the nation.

[Student 1]
Does this mean everyone needs to be harvested now?

[Instructor]
Not exactly. As the new song spreads to more people, it’s like a snowball growing larger as it rolls downhill. It will accelerate, and soon everyone will know about Mount Zion, faster than we might expect.

[Student 1]
I thought you said it started small.

[Instructor]
It does start small, but it doesn’t stay small. Like the parable of the mustard seed that grows into a large tree.

[Student 1]
Why is the new song still unknown to many people?

[Instructor]
The word spreads person by person, one at a time. Maybe a class of 100 people, which is very small. Not many are willing or able to put in the effort to learn a new song like you have.

[Student 1]
The open word has existed for 40 years, yet we haven’t heard much about it in today’s world of rapid information spread. Why hasn’t this teaching gained more traction, as mentioned in Matthew 5:14-16, where you said we are the light of the world? Shouldn’t the open word be known by everybody? Why isn’t the new song in the public eye right now?

[Instructor]
Good question. When Revelation was being fulfilled, today’s technology didn’t exist. The internet is quite recent. For a long time, the word was delivered on a small scale, person to person in Korea. It took time for Mount Zion to gain traction because people didn’t like what he had to say.

[Student 1]
But we don’t see that in the media. We haven’t seen people debating each other.

[Instructor]
If you lived in Korea, it would be a very different story. Many in Korea already know. It’s just taken time to become internationally known because the word wasn’t broadcasted through the internet for a long time. It was spoken in congregations and meetings like this, which takes time.

[Student 1]
But we have internet now. We have YouTube and many forms of communication. It’s like Jesus performing miracles to attract people. Shouldn’t it spread the same way? Not many people have heard of this new song. Do you think it’s because people are afraid of being persecuted?

[Instructor]
By God’s grace, it is being put out there on the internet. But people still need to hear the new song in detail. It’s hard to fully understand just by watching a video, although it’s possible. The word is starting to spread faster now as things are being fulfilled. Up to Revelation 17 has already been fulfilled. Revelation 18, which needs to be fulfilled now, is the judgment of Babylon. Babylon is still around and powerful, with many of God’s people still there. That’s what’s holding up everything else, as many people still have to come out.

[Student 1]
But that’s not fair. There are so many people who haven’t heard about this, and time is running out. It feels like there are still many people who need to hear. How fair is that? It should be publicly known to grab people’s attention so they can start learning about this quickly.

[Instructor]
Indeed, who can predict God’s methods for making this happen? I agree that one-to-one progress is slow. Inviting someone to study can be time-consuming, especially if they procrastinate. You might feel compelled to find another person. However, it won’t always be one-to-one. Events will occur where people will come. When that time arrives, things will happen rapidly.

[Student 2]
We face challenges trying to bring in our loved ones.

[Instructor]
It is challenging. The process is slow because we have lives and work. Satan constantly disrupts our lives. Understand that it’s slow because Satan is fighting us too. As more people become aware, reaching a critical mass, things will begin to snowball, and eventually, the whole world will know.

[Student 2]
Are we currently aiming to build up to 144,000?

[Instructor]
There are already more than 144,000 people at Mount Zion now.

[Student 1]
But one must be sealed, correct?

[Instructor]
Yes, you must be 100% sealed, and there need to be 12,000 in each tribe who are 100% sealed.

[Student 1]
Has that been fulfilled already?

[Instructor]
I didn’t say that. I said we’re in progress.

[Student 1]
Oh, in progress.

[Instructor]
Remember, the first will be last and the last will be first. It’s possible for someone to enter now and still be part of the number.

[Student 1]
And the Great Tribulation happens after those 144,000 are sealed, right?

[Instructor]
We’ll see.

[Student 1]
That’s what I’m saying. Why am I asking if I cannot have the answer?

[Instructor]
There are many details we need to address. Yes, we’ll discuss the Great Tribulation too. Know that as these things are being fulfilled, we can explain certain things in detail. But before something is fulfilled, we can only say what the scripture says. We know we’re getting close because… But until it happens, we don’t want to add or subtract. That’s what we’re instructed not to do.

[Student 1]
I have questions I want to ask, but you often say, “Oh, at the proper time,” all the time.

[Instructor]
What questions are those?

[Student 1]
They’re related to Revelation. You say, “Oh, we are not there yet.” And then we have to wait.

[Instructor]
I still encourage you to ask. It helps me understand what’s on your mind and what you’re thinking about. It also reminds me and helps me know what I should definitely mention when we get to that part of the lesson. So always ask, even if you feel like you won’t get the answer right away. Please still do ask.

QUESTION

Why don’t we ask for testimony from the virgins who have enough oil? Don’t they have testimony to share? You said we should go to the source, which is the freshest and purest, correct? Are the wise virgins’ testimonies not reliable, making it necessary for us to ask directly from the source?

 

ANSWER

That’s not exactly what it’s saying, though I understand your question. My job, as someone trying to be a wise virgin, is to point. I point to the oil seller. This is the way to the oil seller.

[Student 1]
Having enough oil means you need to be constantly sealed, right? That’s why it’s called having enough oil – constantly updating.

[Instructor]
Who has the most oil?

[Student 1]
The wise virgin.

[Instructor]
No. The oil seller has the most oil.

[Student 1]
So we need to get all the doctrines from him, right? All the updates, all the fulfillment he sees. We need to constantly check what’s happening with him and reseal ourselves every time. That’s how you have enough oil, correct?

[Instructor]
That’s right. I’m still sealing myself.

[Student 1]
That’s what I’m saying. If you have oil and I ask you, but you just tell me to go to the seller, it’s kind of…

[Instructor]
Think of it like this: I have oil stored in my mind, but I got the oil I have from the oil seller. If I want you to have oil too, I could explain things I haven’t personally seen or heard, though I try my best. Or I can say, go to the source and get all the oil you need. My job is to point.

[Student 1]
We can get into a game of telephone. One evangelist says something that doesn’t align with another evangelist, creating confusion because everyone’s details are lacking a bit.

[Instructor]
And that’s why we say, go to the oil seller.

[Student 1]
If I go to the oil seller, I get access to New John. Probably not.

[Instructor]
No, but you will hear him speak.

[Student 1]
Oh, that’s what it means.

[Instructor]
That’s right. You will hear him speak in seminars. You’ll hear him speak on Sunday. You’ll hear him speak on Wednesday. You’ll get it directly from the source. That’s what we mean.

[Student 1]
I’m concerned about how we can discern if we receive partial details at the proper time. How do we know if someone is adding or subtracting information? When we hear something new, we might misunderstand or become confused due to partial knowledge. Why provide only partial knowledge or doctrine? Is maturity based on how much secret knowledge one has?

[Instructor]
Think of it like a parent. If your five-year-old asks how they came to be, do you explain all the details? Or do you provide an age-appropriate answer that satisfies them without revealing everything? You’re not lying; they’re just not ready for the full answer. It would be a disservice to tell them something they can’t understand, which might stumble them spiritually. We all start as infants spiritually. It’s not rude or offensive; it’s how everyone begins, even John.

[Student 1]
I’m not referring to that. You mentioned that those who attend Q&A sessions get a teaser or special knowledge. Does this make Q&A attendees more mature than those who only attend regular lessons because they have extra knowledge?

[Instructor]
They mature faster because they’re putting in more effort. However, by the end of the class, everyone will have the same information. Some people have more free time to dedicate, but everyone reaches the same destination. The goal is to get to Mount Zion, where one will continue to grow. We’re not hiding information; we’re revealing it at the proper time. It’s different from what people in the world might say about us hiding things. We’re actually revealing in an appropriate way.

[Student 1]
Can you clarify what you mean by hiding?

[Instructor]
Most people want to know everything immediately. But when everything is revealed at once, they don’t understand. It’s like trying to teach differential equations before addition and subtraction. We need to master the basics first. Jesus taught his disciples in this manner.

[Student 1]
For example, I have special knowledge about the spirit prison from Q&A. If I try to explain this to someone who hasn’t heard about it, they might think I’m adding or subtracting from the word. Who is right and who is wrong in this situation?

[Instructor]
You should be patient until they hear it too. From their perspective, it might seem like you’re adding or subtracting, but you can’t really help that. This is true for any form of information.

[Student 1]
So that’s the confusion I’m talking about. People might say you’re going beyond the word because you’ve learned something they haven’t.

[Student 2]
Does the chairman speak English, or does he need a translator for his sermon?

[Instructor]
There’s a translator. He speaks in Korean and isn’t as educated as people in the world, but we always provide translation.

Now, let’s go to Matthew 16 to see an example from scripture that might help us understand how to reveal information. Pay attention to the specific words spoken here.

Matthew 16:21-23
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

What are the first few words in verse 21? From that time on.

Which means a time came when Jesus began to reveal new information. Which means before Matthew 16, did Jesus reveal that he had to die? No, not yet.

Why? Because it is too soon for the disciple to take it.

[Student 1]
But didn’t he mention the destruction of the temple? And he can rebuild in three days.

[Instructor]
They didn’t know what he meant when he said that. They didn’t know what he meant yet. Right?

If we go to John chapter 2 to see what you’re talking about, you’ll see that John explains how they did not realize it at first.

[Student 1]
But also about the perfume when the woman is washing Jesus’ feet with her hair, right?

[Instructor]
We’ll get to that in just a moment. In John 2:19, Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days. The Jews replied, It has taken 46 years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it up in 3 days?

Raise it in three days? But the temple he had spoken was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said.

Then they believed the scriptures and the words that Jesus had spoken. So they didn’t know what Jesus was talking about until he was raised from the dead. So things are revealed when someone is ready to understand them.

That’s the way. That’s actually grace that God and Jesus do it that way. So the class is structured like that.

It’s not us being rude or anything like that. We’re just first mastering this so that when we do reveal it, it clicks, it makes sense, and it’s easy for you to digest.

[Student 1]
I understand that part. My other part is when you say something to someone who hasn’t received it, and they’re going to blame you because you’ll go beyond the word.

[Instructor]
Then you need to be wise with your words and know that the best way is to speak at someone’s eye level.

[Student 1]
Because you cannot reveal to them, oh, you haven’t heard about this, so I shouldn’t say it. So I’m sorry, you haven’t heard about this.

[Instructor]
I just wouldn’t put myself in a situation where I had to explain myself. What I mean is this. When someone comes to me and says maybe they heard something about God’s kingdom before they had a chance to hear the word.

As someone who’s supposed to teach, my first thing is not going to be to rebuke that person. How could you not have heard this? It would be to say, oh, well, actually, let’s talk about it together.

Then I take them straight back to the basics because that’s what they need before they could even have a chance to understand the deeper things. So if someone insults me, the insult does this. And it fades away.

[Student 1]
You said some people don’t discern and people don’t ask questions, right? So whoever asks questions, you get special knowledge. And then if you run into those people and they say, oh, you are going beyond the word because they didn’t get that information.

That’s just what I’m talking about. How would you deal with those people, Should I just tell them what it is? Or should I just, talk to your instructor or something like that?

[Instructor]
Well, if someone is asking a question, you have to be able to really understand what the real question is that they’re asking. That your job as an instructor or someone who knows the word is to discern what this person is actually asking by this question? Because the heart behind the question should reveal how you address the situation.

Jesus was always asked tricky questions, questions not meant to actually understand, like Nicodemus or the disciples, but questions to trap him. They were trying to trap Jesus in his words. So Jesus did not give them, in most cases, a super clear answer.

He often confused them even more because their question was not genuine. So I’m not going to explain this to you if your question isn’t genuine. Or he would call them foolish, like in Matthew 22, because you don’t know the Scriptures.

Your question is even worse if you’re asking bad questions, kind of like that. So if someone comes to me and says, You’re adding to scriptures, then first I ask them, Well, what does it mean to add the scriptures? And then I’ll ask them, Well, what scriptures do you think I’m adding to?

And now it’s a discussion because, oh, I just think you guys are wrong. Well, why? Show me why I’m wrong.

If they can’t do it, then I say, Well, maybe you should study before you make accusations.

[Student 1]
So it could happen, right?

Some people don’t line up with each other. Because if you talk to one evangelist and that evangelist says something different, and you start questioning, one receives. That’s why you don’t get to talk to the wise virgin.

So it just goes straight to the witness, right? This is how I understood.

[Instructor]
Our job as evangelists is to point. And of course, all of us, are people. We have work to do.

We still have to seal. But a job has to get done too. And that job is to help as many people enter Mount Zion as possible.

So the closer you get to the oil seller, the fresher the food is. And the fresher the water is.

ANSWER

This is a good question. In ancient times, how did lamps function? What was required for a lamp to burn?

[Student 1]
You have oil.

[Instructor]
Correct. Oil had to be put inside the lamp for it to burn. Otherwise, it wouldn’t. The logic of light generation through lamps remains the same. One receives light when they understand the word and how it has been fulfilled.

[Student 1]
But you didn’t mention lighting up as one of the requirements. You had to light up the lamp and the oil.

[Instructor]
Yes, get oil so your lamp can burn.

[Student 1]
But if you never burn it, how will you be able to see or get in?

[Instructor]
Exactly.

[Student]
That’s my point. You never mentioned that. I remember the parable of the incense. You need the incense and fire, right?

[Instructor]
Well, what is incense?

[Student 1]
It’s the prayer. I don’t remember.

[Instructor]
Looks like it’s time to study.

[Student 1]
That’s what I’m saying. I forget. That’s why I have to seal all the time, right?

[Instructor]
That’s why you have to seal all the time. First, there’s a censer. The censer is a type of container. And what is a container?

[Student 1]
It’s the person’s heart.

[Instructor]
Yes, it’s a person’s heart. Fire is the word. Incense is prayer.

[Student 1]
So I was right. Incense smoke is the prayers being lifted up. Jeremiah 5:14 says fire is the word. Psalms 141:2 says incense is prayer. When someone prays with the word, their prayers produce smoke, which is the rising of prayers to God. The word, fire, needs to be lit in someone’s heart. If that person does not pray, how can God hear? Psalm 141:2. The logic is very similar.

[Student 1]
So to light up the fire is to inquire.

[Instructor]
Yes, but the lamp burning is like the word at work because the lamp contains or requires the testimony.

[Student 1]
To burn, to purify.

[Instructor]
Then the fire can really burn. In Luke 24:13-32, when Jesus explained himself to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, they said in verse 32, “Was not our heart burning within us when he opened the scriptures to us?” Jesus was giving them the oil. They knew the prophecies but didn’t understand how they would be fulfilled. When Jesus was crucified, they were downcast, thinking he was just another person who said big things but died. They didn’t realize his death was intentional and necessary for fulfillment. When Jesus explained the prophecies, they received the oil and understood he had to die and return. Does that make sense?

Let’s be ignited and ignite others.

QUESTION

We previously discussed the 10 virgins, and you advised us to wait for the lesson. Now that we have received it, I initially wanted to share this knowledge with my Bible study group. I’m wondering if it’s appropriate to share what I’ve learned about the 10 virgins with them. Would they be able to understand it, or as you mentioned earlier, is it not the proper time? Perhaps I need to feed them gradually, which is why you didn’t provide the answers immediately, but waited for several months.

 

ANSWER

[Instructor]
Sharing this information now would be a disservice to them because they won’t understand. It might actually confuse them more. They don’t yet grasp why testimony is important. Remember, your way of thinking is now very different from those in Babylon.

When you mention “word of testimony,” people might think of Sunday service testimonies, which isn’t what you mean. There are many gaps in their understanding that need to be filled first.

Instead, ask them what they think the oil represents. Let each person share their thoughts. Then, ask why they’re all giving different answers and if they can all be right. Your goal is to inspire curiosity and a desire to study more, not to provide the answer they’re not yet ready to understand.

[Student 2]
What if they ask why we’re not sharing the answer if we have it?

[Instructor]
You need to be wise with your words. Explain that it took you months to understand, which is why you can’t simply tell them now. Mention that you’ve been studying through a ministry offering seminars, and invite them to come, suggesting it will be deep.

When discussing the parable with them, you can point out key elements they might have overlooked. For example, you could talk about the lamp mentioned in Psalm 119:105, which many Christians know. Ask what they think the lamp represents, then show them it’s the word. This can lead to a discussion about the oil.

Emphasize how understanding the basics helped you grasp deeper concepts. Avoid discussing Revelation, as people have various ideas about it. The goal is to inspire curiosity without pushing people away, which requires a delicate balance.

The seminars and course focus on understanding topics throughout the Bible, not just reading through chapters sequentially. Explain that this approach helps see the consistency of the Bible from start to finish, allowing you to appreciate both the forest and the trees.

Highlight how this method reveals connections between different parts of the Bible, such as Genesis, Isaiah, and Matthew, deepening your appreciation for the whole Scripture.

QUESTION 

You mentioned that the judgment of Babylon will happen when Revelation 18 is fulfilled. However, when the wedding banquet comes, who remains to heal everyone?

Does this mean that everyone alive must have the opportunity to come out of Babylon before things can progress? If so, will only those who weren’t alive or didn’t hear the testimony be taught by the 144,000 and the great multitude?

 

ANSWER

A great multitude doesn’t necessarily mean everyone; it simply refers to a large number of people. Remember, two seeds are sown in the field.

The goal is to harvest all of God’s seed, but this means weeds will still remain in the field. Revelation 18:4 states, “Come out of her, my people,” indicating that there are people in Babylon who don’t belong to God.

Some will remain in Babylon even after others are called out. Therefore, there will still be people who need to be taught after those born of God’s seed are harvested.

Recall Jesus’ words about two seeds being sown in His field: He sowed the good seed, and the enemy sowed the weeds. Both grow in the same field.

[Student 3]
This is from Matthew 13. After the harvest, the weeds are burned. Correct?

[Instructor]
What does it mean to be burned? It means to be judged, right? When does the judgment happen?

It occurs at the very end. I see where your confusion lies. There are multiple judgments in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 6 is a judgment.
Revelation 8 is a judgment.
Revelation 9 is a judgment.
Revelation 11 is a judgment.
Revelations 16, 17, and 18 are all judgments.
The final judgment is in Revelation 20.

That’s when the weeds are burned. To be burned means to be cast into hell, which doesn’t happen until the very end.

In this field, there are those born of God’s seed (sons of the kingdom) and those born of the devil’s seed. The field is Babylon, also known as the church. In Revelation 18:4, God is trying to call out all of His people:

“Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins or receive any of her plagues.”

This needs to happen before the wedding banquet and the first resurrection can take place. Many people still need to be called out.

So, let’s get to work. The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. That’s why the work takes so long.

Having enough oil means being prepared. For example, if 100,000 people were studying online, they would have questions too. They would need someone to talk to as well.

We don’t have 100,000 evangelists yet.

[Instructor]
Remember when we looked at fulfillment and saw the picture of the tribes in that big stadium? That was the second of our now three 100,000 graduations. It means that 100,000 people, who took the exact same course you’re taking now, finished and entered Mount Zion within the same year. It’s our end-of-year celebration globally for everyone taking this course. This year, over 110,000 will be graduating, which is incredible.

[Student 1]
So it’s more every year. You’re going there because you didn’t go last time, right? And you’re going there for your first time wearing your gown and everything?

[Instructor]
I wear the gown every year. For those who are able, they will go to Korea and do it there. This will be my first time doing it in Korea.

[Student 1]
Wearing the gown every year means you’re graduating every year?

[Instructor]
We hold the graduation every year. As an instructor, it’s like being a professor. That’s why I wear the gown, as a teacher.

[Student 1]
For those who are not instructors, do they do the same? Or will we have to be dressed up somehow?

[Instructor]
We’ll provide the gown and tell you everything you need to do. It’ll be quite clear. Everyone wears the gown. We have enough for everyone who attends in person, so we all look united as one.

The 100,000 graduation will happen in November. Because we’re going through all the chapters of Revelation, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, that extra day really helps. Otherwise, it would take us an extra month or two longer.

[Student 2]
Does that mean we are saving money for plane tickets?

[Instructor]
If you’d like, you can start. It’s not a requirement to go to Korea. But if you would like to go, please do. We’ll understand more soon. Things are still under planning since it’s July, several months ahead of time. Typically, we’ll know more details by the end of August or early September.

[Student 2]
At graduation, would the chairman be there to give out the diploma or something?

[Instructor]
That’s right. He’ll be there. If you graduate, you might like to be there, but you’d like to know the details. We’ll give you more details when we get closer.

First, we need to get through Revelation, all 22 chapters, 404 verses. Just plan for November. Start saving up and looking at tickets to see when the best time is. It’ll most likely be the first, second, or third week of November.

At that point, you’ll be taking the class for the second time, so it’ll be very different. You’ll see a ton of things. We’ll work with you. That’s not a problem. We do this every year.

By that time, Revelation will be finished by God’s grace to enter Mount Zion. Then we’ll take another class. The moment our class is done, the next class starts. You’ll see a lot about Mount Zion. We’ve only shown you this much about Mount Zion, but there’s a bunch more. By God’s grace.

QUESTION 

God’s purpose is to return to the physical world. God is a spirit and needs a physical form, like He needs a bride.

Jesus will come back and unite with new John at the wedding banquet. So, shouldn’t God also return with a bride?

ANSWER

Good question. When we say “unite,” it’s important to understand that it doesn’t mean each person is paired with their own personal spirit. It’s not like, “Hey, spirit, you’ve been in heaven for a while.”

What it means is that all of heaven will work together with everyone at Mount Zion. It’s more like a team. When we say a spirit marries flesh, it means the spirit speaks through the flesh, and they work together as one.

Think of it more like two all-star teams coming together to defeat the international team. We’ll take one person from this team and that team, but they unite as one and work together as one. As those at Mount Zion are doing the work of teaching and healing the nations, the spirits are there working with them, making the work go even faster.

Imagine how much faster people will hear about God when heaven is here and the spirits are at work. That’ll be amazing. People’s hearts will really be moved so quickly.

[Student 1]
So one flesh can have multiple spirits?

[Instructor]
That’s always been true.

[Student 1]
So that’s why demon-possessed people can have a legion, right?

[Instructor]
That’s right. Or when Jesus said in Matthew 12, when the spirit leaves and comes back with seven more evil spirits.

ANSWER

This is a good question. Regarding Revelation, definitely yes. This is because Revelation is being fulfilled in our time. It’s the word that’s the clearest right now.

However, it’s important to remember that not everything from the Old Testament could have been explained in the four gospels. There simply wasn’t enough space to cover it all.

This is what John was trying to help us understand in his writings.

 

John 21:24-25
24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

 

The gospel of John concludes in an epic manner. Jesus performed many other actions, but there wasn’t sufficient space to document everything.

In the Old Testament, some prophecies lack clear fulfilment in the gospels. These questions remain unanswered until heaven descends, at which point we can inquire directly. Until then, these matters will become clear.

Regarding Revelation, John both saw and heard it. This will be explained plainly.

[Student 1]
What about the Old Testament?

[Instructor]
The Old Testament will be clarified when heaven descends.

[Student 1]
Okay, so…

[Instructor]
Additionally, John comprehends certain aspects that you can discuss with him at some point. However, when heaven descends, everything that was part of the ministry will also be made plainly known.

QUESTION 

We went through the Bible history about why every covenant was betrayed, right? We start with Noah.

What’s the covenant of Noah, actually?

ANSWER

Let’s go to Genesis 9 and see the covenant with Noah.

[Student 1]
You said that covenant was betrayed. It was betrayed by one of Noah’s children. The son saw him naked, and then he’s being betrayed. It’s the same thing as Abraham, as he didn’t wait for the promised son and had a son with Hagar. Why is his covenant not betrayed? Abraham didn’t wait.

[Instructor]
Well, when people of God become impatient, they get punished.

[Student 1]
But Noah’s sons got punished because he saw his dad naked.
So how fair is that?

[Instructor]
No, the problem wasn’t that he saw his father. The problem is what he did after he saw his father. That was the problem.

When Ham saw his father, and likely Canaan was with him, he should have just covered it up. And that would have been the end of it. No one else had to know about it.

But he went and told people. “Guess what? I saw dad naked.”

That was his fault. Not that he saw his father naked.

[Student 1]
So what was the covenant?

[Instructor]

 

Genesis 9:1-17
Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth. ”
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”
17 So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

 

So God’s covenant with Noah, two factors.

1. Noah, your job, be fruitful and multiply.
2. God will not destroy with flood.

So those are the two main aspects of God’s covenant with Noah and his family. So their job was be fruitful and multiply.

And do so in peace as God’s rulers. But Noah is in his tent. Noah is perfect.

And Ham and likely Canaan as well. Which is why Canaan was also cursed. They saw him naked.

And when this happened, they should have just clothed him. And that would have been the end of the matter. And Ham would not have been cursed.

[Student 1]
How is that had to do with the covenant?

[Instructor]
So think of it like if you… So if you wrong the person the covenant is established with, you’ve wronged against God. You have made God’s servant look bad, essentially.

So things will not go well for the one who dishonors God’s servant. So that’s essentially what Ham and Canaan did, was they dishonored Noah, God’s messenger.

[Student 1]
But that does ruin the whole of Noah’s kingdom.

[Instructor]
Well, Noah’s kingdom continued on.

[Student 1]
But it’s broken now, right? That’s why he had to find another pastor.

[Instructor]
No, so think of it, think of it like this.
God’s covenant with Noah is everlasting. It’s still going. But each person who is a part of that covenant has to uphold it with God too.

The covenant is everlasting for all generations. The two everlasting covenants, the one with Noah, and the one with Abraham, they’re everlasting. But individual people can break the covenant.

But God still keeps that covenant. God always upholds his end of the covenant. God’s covenant was to be fruitful and multiply.

That’s still happening. And then God will not destroy the earth with the flood.

[Student 1]
But the covenant was broken because Ham was against the pastor. That’s the difference.

[Instructor]
So he and all of his generations had broken the covenant forever, which is why they were cursed. But Shem and Japheth, they kept the covenant. They clothed their father and they were blessed.

Shem, of course, the great, great, great, great, great, great, great grand ancestor of Abraham. Semite, today we say Semite, just means descendants of Shem, who was the son of Noah. That’s where Semite comes from.

So Shem kept the covenant, Japheth kept the covenant, Ham did not.

[Student 1]
So why didn’t God punish Abraham for not keeping, for waiting?

[Instructor]
Well, Abraham kept his covenant, but he had to cast out the son that he had with Hagar. It was not a pleasant situation for him. That decision that he made, his impatience caused strife in his family.

So it did cost him. He had to cast away one of his sons.

[Student 1]
But he doubted God, though.

[Instructor]
Abraham didn’t doubt God. Sarah did. It was Sarah.

And Sarah, but sometimes when your wife gives you problems, it’s like hard because you’re having to, you know. So it was Sarah that was impatient. But to, you know, it didn’t not hurt Abraham.

It troubled him, too. And that’s what you see in Genesis 21. When Abraham was troubled by the matter.

[Student 1]
But Moses got punished for disobeying God.
And how fair is that?, like, somebody did this it’s okay. And then Moses did this, and then he had to die alone and He cannot go to the promised land.

[Instructor]
You know, the one who God is using will be judged more strictly. He’s held to the highest standard. So when, for example, David messed up with Bathsheba, Uriah’s wife, and had a child, and David had Uriah killed, God did not allow that child to live.

He was punished. David is the man after God’s own heart, seen as the legend of Israel. But he was punished for his mistake.

Abraham had to cast out his technically his firstborn son, although Isaac is the true firstborn son, because he is the son of promise. He had to cast out his son. So it wasn’t painless.

Moses did not get to enter the promised land. Because he disobeyed God in front of everyone. God did not take that lightly.

So I’m very glad that we live in this time. I’ll say it like that. There’s a lot more grace for us, but not infinite grace.

There’s a little bit more grace for us, but not infinite grace. Don’t test God.

ANSWER

 

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

 

In Revelation 1:20, there’s a prophecy mentioning seven stars, which represent angels or messengers, and seven lampstands, representing churches. This is called a mystery, known only to God until it’s revealed.

The 5W1H for this prophecy can be understood as:

1. Who: 7 stars of the Tabernacle Temple
2. What: 7 stars taught
3. When: 1966
4. Where: Gwacheon, South Korea
5. Why: To prepare for the Lord’s Second Coming
6. How: Jesus appointed and taught them, then they began preaching

This explanation applies to every chapter, focusing on what has been fulfilled.

[Student 1]
How can we verify these claims? Many people say things, and as we see in the news, events can be staged.

[Instructor]
True, but has anyone staged the entire book of Revelation? We need to consider it this way:

Multiple prophecies must be shown to be fulfilled before we accept them as reality. While news reports might seem to fulfill one or two verses, they won’t fulfill 300 verses. The true fulfilment will satisfy numerous verses in succession.

This is how we can differentiate truth from lies. When many verses are fulfilled, lining up and making sense together, we can recognize the true fulfilment.

[Student 1]
How many verses cover this particular fulfillment?

[Instructor]
Up to Revelation 17.

[Student 1]
Is it only in the book of Revelation?

[Instructor]
It goes up to chapters 19 and 20. Chapters 21 and 22 are retellings or summaries. So it’s really up to chapter 20, which is a significant portion of the book. Does that make sense?

[Student 2]
What about the 5W1H? I’m glad you mentioned that. Will you answer all those as we study? And did you say we are pretty much fulfilled up to chapter 20?

[Instructor]
Up to chapter 17. Chapters 18, 19, and 20 are yet to be fulfilled.

Chapters 21 and 22 are summaries spread throughout the book.

This means we can clearly testify to the 5W1H for things from Revelation 1 to 17.

For Revelation 18, 19, and 20, we can’t provide specific details yet because they haven’t happened. That would be adding and subtracting. We can only give our best understanding based on what has already been fulfilled.

It’s similar to AI image generation. The process starts with a fuzzy image that gradually becomes clearer. At first, you might see a blurry shape and wonder, “Is that a dog?” Over time, it becomes more distinct, and you realize it’s a dog holding a lollipop.

Our understanding of prophecy works the same way. As more is fulfilled, we get a clearer picture of where things are going. But we can’t say exactly when, where, and how for sure, because that’s up to God. When it happens, we’ll recognize it and say, “Revelation 18 is happening now.”

John will see it first, and then we testify to many people.

In Revelation 18, many people still need to come out, as stated in verse 4. Many desperately want to know but haven’t been spoken to yet. There’s also the judgment of Babylon in Revelation 18. Don’t be there when it happens.

Chapter 19 covers the wedding banquet of the lamb, and chapter 20 the resurrection. These are huge promises that will come true. We must wait patiently. Once these things happen, the world will be very different.

[Student 4]
So there are multiple Mount Zions all over the world?

[Instructor]
There is one Mount Zion with many branches.

[Student 4]
Okay. Do they call it the chief mountain?

[Instructor]
That’s right. There is one mountain, the chief mountain, which will be above all other mountains. You can see this as Mount Zion over the churches of the world, but also as Mount Zion and its many branches.

Mount Zion has a headquarters in South Korea. Our church is one of the branches, one of the many mountains. Well, it won’t be many for long. We’re growing.

[Student 4]
So you also have them in Africa and all parts of the world?

[Instructor]
Yes, we’re all over the place, by God’s grace. Africa is on fire, especially Uganda. Uganda is next level. I can’t wait for you to see it. We’re growing rapidly in India too. It’s very big there.

QUESTION 

When discussing testimony, such as a believer trying to testify about the book of Revelation, what kind of testimony should we give when we share and talk about Jesus?

For example, how does it fulfill? and this is its 5W1H. This is how we testify as believers?

ANSWER

You don’t start with the 5W1H. You can, but people won’t understand what you’re talking about.

Begin with the basics. Start with Jesus. Do you know who Jesus is? Do you believe in him? Do you believe he came and promised to come again? Do you believe in Jesus’ promises?

Start from there, like we did in class. Not everyone will have the luxury of seeing the word before fulfillment. Many people will see fulfillment first.

They’ll have many opinions. South Korea might seem weird or not make sense. Then they’ll decide whether to hear the open word. It’ll be challenging for people at that time. Many will say, “Revelation is happening. I’ve been waiting. Let me go in.” Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of people will come.

[Student 1]
I’m not talking about those who haven’t received the open word. If I invite someone to Bible study to hear the open word, and I’ve taken all the courses, they might ask me questions.

How would my testimony convince them to stay? How would I show my testimony to say, “This is why I’m convinced this is the truth”? Instead of throwing them all the textbook information, how do you testify according to your personal experience?

[Instructor]
Great question. I tailor my testimony to someone’s eye level, meaning what they understand now. I speak the language they already understand.

If someone hasn’t studied the open word yet, I won’t say things like prophecy and fulfillment, open word, lampstand, most holy place, or eating the scroll. Those won’t make sense yet.

I give the testimony at their eye level. I’ll say things like, “Have you studied the parables yet? How are you liking figurative fire? That was deep, right? Isn’t it cool how our hearts feel like they’re burning when we learn something new?”

I’ll tailor my testimony to where they are so they understand what I’m talking about.

Jesus often did the same thing. The disciples had to level up quickly because of their huge responsibility later. Jesus would speak at their eye level, but slightly above to help them level up. He’d throw them a curveball like, “Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

The disciples didn’t get it, so Jesus explained, “You have little faith. How do you not know I was talking about their teachings, not bread?” Then they understood.

Your testimony should inspire curiosity but be understandable. Include something they don’t fully grasp so they want to learn more. That’s how every testimony should be.

Does that make sense?

[Student 1]
I understand that people’s communication skills differ, partly due to language. Some languages are inherently more convincing. For example, in high school, I disliked math and physics because of the teacher. However, in college, I started to enjoy math due to the teacher’s explanation style. This illustrates that if someone doesn’t believe what you’re saying, it might be due to your communication method or unconvincing word choice.

You can either encourage people to learn more or push them away. When sharing your beliefs, you’re not adding or subtracting from the truth, but expressing why you believe it’s true. I’m adding soul to it. I’m allowed to do that, rather than just reciting the open word like a textbook. I want to convey my conviction and passion, not just explain the 5W1H.

[Instructor]
Indeed, it needs to be both. As Paul said, the truth must be delivered with love. In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul discusses how the gospel should be delivered. It can’t be all love without substance, nor all truth without love, as that hurts people. Both elements must be present.

For someone unfamiliar with the open word, I focus more on love to avoid stumbling on it. For those of you, who understand more, I provide more truth. You need to hear lots of truth now.

[Student 1]
So, if someone in the class expresses uncertainty, my testimony comes in. Without explaining all the details, I can show my assurance by stating why I believe and why I’m still here.

[Instructor]
Exactly. You must tailor the message to the person’s needs. In my meetings with you, I listen, pray, and ask God to speak through me. I provide a “cooked meal” that’s appropriate for you at that time. Sometimes you need to vent, and I show love through a verse. Other times, you need more explanation.

You must become a good “cook” because the word is food. Too much “salt” or “sugar” will make it unpalatable. You should be proficient enough with the word to impact someone in a 30-second elevator ride or deliver the same message over two hours at a conference. It takes time and skill to craft this ability.

[Student 1]
I have an example. Some people enjoy TV series with cliffhangers, waiting a week for the next episode. Others prefer to binge-watch the entire series. Similarly, if someone approaches me and I say it’s not the proper time to reveal certain information, it might affect their interest. They might think, “Why should I listen now? I’ll wait until the end.” People are different, and constantly deferring answers because they haven’t finished the course might cause them to lose interest.

[Instructor]
That’s true, and it does happen. We need to follow the method that works for most people right now, which is explaining the word in detail. It’s the widest possible net. Some people need to hear everything immediately, and there will be a path for them. However, the majority need extensive explanation before hearing the details.

Everyone is different, but we must cast as wide a net as possible. That’s why the class is structured this way. For those who want to hear everything up front, a time will come when it’s delivered to them in that manner.

QUESTION 

Mount Zion is synonymous with Jerusalem, right? The physical Mount Zion, yes. The Bible frequently mentions Jerusalem as God’s specific place, particularly in Israel, as described in the Old Testament.

However, according to what you have taught us, in Revelation and in actual reality, it is in South Korea. How do you explain that? How can I prove to others that, while the Bible mentions the physical location is in Israel, Revelation suggests otherwise?

How do I explain this fulfillment, using the 5W1H, and how do we testify to this as believers?

ANSWER

That’s an excellent question. To explain this effectively, we need to first establish the foundation of figurative language in scripture. Without this foundation, it won’t make sense to people.

It’s important to show examples from scripture where figurative language was used, but the outcome differed from what people initially thought. One way to do this is by examining verses like Isaiah 28:16.

Let’s read this verse together, as it will help illustrate the point and show you how to create your own examples.

Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

So we see this here in Isaiah 28:16. See, I lay a stone in Zion.

So people might be thinking, oh, there needs to be a holy stone that we need to find. So everyone looks for a holy stone on Mount Zion. They’ll go to Mount Zion, and search for a holy stone for a long time.

How long will it take them to find a holy stone on the ground? Or they’ll never find it.

[Student 2]
But it is not a cornerstone.

[Instructor]
Not the real stone. So then there must be a reality to that stone. But the word stone is not an accident.

It was intentional that it was used. So then you take them to 1 Peter 2:4-8, and then they can see the reality of that stone, which was very different in the way the prophecy made it seem. But actually, logically, it’s consistent.

This example shows how figurative language in prophecy represents a deeper truth. The fulfilment of the prophecy may not be as literal as it first appears, similar to how Jesus used parables to teach spiritual lessons. It’s important to be open to understanding the true meaning behind the words, rather than taking them at face value.

1 Peter 2:4-8
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone, ”
8 and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

The testimony and gospel fulfillment enable us to understand precisely what Isaiah 28:16 was referring to. Verse 6 directly quotes Isaiah 28:16, indicating that Jesus is the fulfillment of that prophecy.

This clarifies for us that it’s not a literal holy stone, but rather a living stone who became both the cornerstone and capstone. Now, let’s specifically address Jerusalem.

We encounter numerous verses discussing God’s choice of Zion as his eternal dwelling place. This has remained constant. However, it’s crucial to remember God’s method of operation.

God utilizes physical elements to elucidate spiritual concepts and to explain himself.

Hebrews 12:22-23
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

Wow. What did Paul, the writer of Hebrews, say?

He describes Mount Zion in various ways: the church of the firstborn, a place where thousands of angels gather in joyful assembly. This Mount Zion isn’t established by building stones on a physical mountain, but through a new covenant. It’s not literal in nature.

It’s a gathering place for people and spirits. When we see similar descriptions in Revelation 14 and 21, we realize it’s spiritual. According to these verses, this location can be anywhere.

The concept of Zion as God’s eternal dwelling place remains consistent. This idea is quite deep.

It’s best not to start with such complex concepts. Instead, begin with Romans 1:20, explaining how God uses physical things to illustrate spiritual concepts.

Start with simple examples like seed and water, as we did in class. These are easy to understand and logical. Save deeper concepts like Zion and stone for when someone has a better understanding.

If someone asks about Mount Zion being in Korea, you can delve deeper because they already have some knowledge. In this case, you might need to use more complex examples about Jesus and connect them to Revelation.

That time will come when many people will know and ask questions. We need to be prepared. It’s a very good point – that time is approaching. So, master the content to easily deliver it at any moment.

You should be able to explain it clearly, perhaps even drawing it out. Some might say, “I thought you were mistaken, but that actually makes sense.” Others might still not believe or understand, and that’s okay.

QUESTION 

You said salvation is the destination. So why is there so much mastering and sealing happening if you’re already on Mount Zion? You have to stay there.

Are you thinking that people do not have enough faith and keep leaving Mount Zion?

ANSWER

[Instructor]
Consider this perspective: Satan persists in his efforts until the very end. Until that point, Satan continues to fight people and, as stated in Matthew 24, attempts to deceive even the elect if possible.

No one is safe until Satan is locked up and everything concludes. Therefore, everyone should focus on sealing.

[Student 1]
Are you suggesting that many people, even those in Zion, keep leaving?

[Instructor]
I’m not specifically saying that, but it does happen, which is unfortunate. The key is to get there and stay.

[Student 1]
If you know the fulfillments, including who and all the 5W1H, why do you still need to keep sealing? If you already know the answers?

[Instructor]
What does it mean to be sealed?

[Student 1]
Guest Instructor mentioned something about the exam, the testing. It’s also called the sealing exam. So basically, you’ll constantly be tested on what you know.

That’s what I mean. You constantly have to be sealed.

That’s called sealing. You’re going to be tested all the time. Why?

[Instructor]
Who specifically does God need?

[Student 1]
The open heart?

[Instructor]
Certainly, that’s the start. But according to Revelation, who are those that need to be established?

[Student 1]
The 12 tribes?

[Instructor]
Yes, broadly. But of the 12 tribes, who? Kingdom and priests?

What do you call them? The kingdom and priests? The priests, specifically.

[Student 3]
144,000.

[Instructor]
Amen. That’s who God needs right now. People who are the most sealed.

That’s who we’re looking for. That’s why we test. That’s why we seal.

Many of us want to be that, by God’s grace. But it won’t be as important to seal as much because people will just come.

Because the number will be confirmed, and they will teach the world.

[Student 1]
Oh, you mean constant sealing is to elect the 144,000?

[Instructor]
That’s right. We’re all trying to be there.

But no one’s confirmed. It could be me. It couldn’t be me.

One of you in this room could take my seat if I began to… let off the pedal like this. I’m already here.

I’m okay. Yeah, right. If I do that, George’s taking my seat.

He’s not taking my seat, bro. My word is firmly secured. I will continue to work hard.

[Student 1]
How can one know if they are among the 144,000? Will there be an announcement?

[Instructor]
I don’t know.

[Student 1]
So no one knows.

[Instructor]
It will be determined by God. That’s what I can say.

[Student 1]
So nobody knows who will be sealed or when. No one knows.

[Instructor]
No one knows. It is up to God.

[Student 3]
From my perspective, and of course God looks at our hearts and diligence, this isn’t something new. It’s been around for some time. You’re an example, but I think about the person who taught you, and the person who taught them, and so on.

Even with the graduation, if there are about a hundred thousand, which I think I heard you mention, what realistic hope is there for us to have a chance when there are people who have been involved in this longer than I’ve been alive?

[Instructor]
The first will be last and the last will be first. Jesus warned us about this many times.

[Student 1]
But you also talk about blessings, right? Those who have been there for a long time, do they have more blessings than those who come last? Or can they receive the same blessing?

[Instructor]
Ultimately, they receive the same blessing of heaven and eternal life. But 144,000 of them will be priests.

[Student 1]
What does it mean to be a priest?

[Instructor]
We just teach the world.

[Student 1]
So being a priest means teaching the world, healing all nations. What happens with the others? They just don’t teach?

[Instructor]
They will be the kingdom. They will be the congregation.

[Student 1]
Okay.

[Instructor]
They will be the people of the kingdom. That’s the difference.

QUESTION 

Before the first coming and after Jesus’ ascension, the promised night came. So, you’re referring to periods of complete darkness after Jesus left.

Is that why you’re saying that in this darkness, people lack the truth, both before the first coming and after Jesus’ departure? My question is, why does God allow this darkness to happen? It seems like God has abandoned His sheep, leaving them in darkness for 2,000 years and allowing many interpretations to arise.

Why would God allow that to happen? Jesus abandoned his sheep.

ANSWER

This is an excellent question. Consider the first occurrence of this situation and its reason. In the Old Testament, during Moses’ time, God provided the law to the people. However, they broke the law and the covenant.

As a result, God allowed them to experience darkness. Amos 8:11-12 describes a famine where people search for the word of the Lord but cannot find it. God left them in this state because they broke the covenant, despite being given many chances.

This famine ended with the first coming, and light appeared when Jesus began preaching. Jesus was aware that Satan, who had caused the initial covenant-breaking, was still active and causing problems.

Jesus knew Satan would repeat his tactics. Although the light appeared and ended the Old Testament darkness, new darkness would emerge. This is referenced in John 9:1-4 and Matthew 13:24-30, which discuss the parable of sowing seeds in a field.

There has been enough light for people to know about Jesus over the past 2,000 years. This widespread knowledge of Jesus has been the greatest success, supported by God and the angels. However, they recognize the strength of people’s thoughts and the difficulty of influencing them. God, Jesus, and spirits work through thoughts, but Satan also operates in this manner. This is why lies can spread quickly, even when the truth is being taught.

Eventually, the truth must be taught again to eliminate the darkness. This time, darkness will continuously decrease until the end. There will still be a Gog and Magog at the end of the 1,000 years, but they will ultimately end. This fulfills the prophecy of “No more sin” in Revelation 21:1.

This process is necessary because of the ongoing presence of an enemy. God and Jesus are aware of their adversary, who continues to influence people’s hearts. Therefore, this influence must be completely eradicated.

QUESTION 

According to Babylon, the Holy Spirit will guide people after Jesus leaves.

You mentioned that the Holy Spirit is the Counselor, the mighty angel working together with the New John. So, which Holy Spirit are they referring to exactly?

Can the same Holy Spirit be present in multiple people? Can one Holy Spirit reside in multiple individuals? Which Holy Spirit are they talking about that will guide us after Jesus leaves, as happened during Pentecost?

ANSWER

Was the Pentecost Holy Spirit the same as the Holy Spirit Jesus promised in John 14, 15, and 16?

[Student 1]
Oh, you mean this is the same or is different?

[Instructor]
Oh, you tell me. Are they the same?

[Student 1]
Different

[Instructor]
Amen. So are they the same or no? The answer is no.

And here’s why. Jesus promised the spirit of truth. Called Holy Spirit, called Counselor.

And Jesus said specifically, this spirit will not speak on his own, but only speak what he hears. Meaning that the spirit of truth is under Jesus or lesser than Jesus and not be God. That the spirit will come in Jesus’s name.

Does Jesus come in God’s name or does God come in Jesus’s name?

[Student 1]
In God’s name.

[Instructor]
Right. But the spirit of Acts chapter 2 of Pentecost is different. This spirit.

If you go to Acts chapter 2, Paul gives us a clue as to which spirit descended on the people and gave them the ability to speak in different languages. If you go to Acts chapter 2, you’ll see how John describes this. This is the same spirit that Jesus said would come in Acts chapter 1, but not the same spirit he promised in John 14, 15 and 16.

And that’s the error we made a long time ago in Christendom, which has led people to think the Holy Spirit speaks through me. This is what I believe. I’m going to go form this denomination over here.

No, actually, this is what the Holy Spirit said to me. I’m going to go for this denomination over here and then branches and branches. And that’s why this confusion has caused much division in the church.

Actually, if you go to Acts 2:1-4, the spirit that came at Pentecost,

Acts 2:1-4
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

The people then started to speak in various languages.

One individual was speaking German. Another was speaking Portuguese. Yet another was speaking Spanish.

Naturally, these weren’t the actual languages used. I’m merely providing examples. Regardless, they were communicating in different tongues.

Subsequently, Peter approaches and explains the reason for this occurrence. He references a prophecy. When we examine Peter’s explanation, beginning with verse 14, we observe the following:

Acts 2:14
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.

These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning.

This event fulfills what was spoken through the prophet Joel, indicating that the Holy Spirit came in accordance with Joel’s promise, not Jesus’. Specifically, Joel 2:28-32.

What does this prophecy say? In the last days, referring to the time of the first coming or the end of the Old Testament era, God said, “I will pour out my spirit on all people.” This is God’s spirit, not a separate entity.

The prophecy continues: “Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions. Your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.”

“I will show wonders in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire, billows of smoke. The sun will turn to darkness and the moon to blood red before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Whose name? Jesus. This spirit came in accordance with Joel’s prophecy (Joel 2:28-32). We need to be specific when interpreting “Holy Spirit” in the Bible. We’ve often grouped them into one entity, causing confusion.

Every spirit that belongs to God is holy. Whether it’s an angel, Jesus, or God himself, they all do God’s will. Ultimately, it’s still God at work, whether he sends an angel or acts himself.

[Student 1]
So when they say someone has the Holy Spirit, it could be different types of spirits that come and go, not like the same spirit that remains in believers?

[Instructor]
When we become believers, God’s goal is to guide us. According to Acts 17:26-27, God guided our steps so we could find him.

There’s a difference between God guiding our steps like a parent and God revealing prophecy or fulfillment. This is a deeper level. It happens with one person first, who then teaches others.

The first level happens to everyone, with God ensuring we’re in a place to find him. This is what God has been doing for the last 2000 years. But only now has this deeper level been possible.

[Student 1]
When you say guiding our steps, it’s through a spirit, a Holy Spirit?

[Instructor]
It can be God’s spirit or our personal angels – we all have angels who guide us. Heaven is trying to ensure as many people as possible find Jesus and ultimately find God.

Now the time has come for everyone.

[Student 1]
So this means there’s a misinterpretation of the Holy Spirit that can live in multiple people, which is false, right?

[Instructor]
That’s why I urge us to really understand this. Many claim to have the Holy Spirit, but they say different, contradictory things. So who’s right? Is the Holy Spirit confused, or have we misunderstood the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 says the spirit and the deep things of God are always together, aka the word. Where the true spirit is working, the true word is working. If the word isn’t working, the spirit isn’t there.

[Student 1]
Those spirits are not helping people in Babylon right now, right?

[Instructor]
The spirits are trying to help them find Mount Zion – they’re harvesting angels. Guiding our steps is different from revealing fulfillment.

God and heaven are trying to get as many people to do this as possible. They’re working like lightning so people can find the one who has revelation’s fulfillment. When someone has the testimony, the spirit can really work through them, like Philip.

[Student 1]
So when they say to open the understanding of God’s word, is it through the Holy Spirit or through somebody who has the spirit?

[Instructor]
What’s the difference?

[Student 1]
You need to have God’s spirit to open understanding of the scriptures. Or you need somebody who has the spirit to open that understanding. So you probably cannot discern for yourself. If you say, “The Holy Spirit will open my understanding,” sometimes we pray, “God, please open my understanding to your scripture.”

You said like the Ethiopian eunuch, no matter how he read, he wouldn’t understand, so the understanding came through someone else.

[Instructor]
What was it that he didn’t understand?

[Student 1]
The prophecy.

[Instructor]
The prophecy. Which means there were parts he could understand, like “treat others how you want to be treated” or “do not steal, do not kill.” Those don’t need the spirit to explain. They’re self-explanatory.

But for prophecy and fulfillment specifically, it has to come through one who has seen and heard. That’s always been the standard.

This can’t just happen anytime. 500 years ago, someone couldn’t read Revelation and think, “The spirit has shown this to me,” because the events of Revelation hadn’t happened yet.

They were inaccessible to everyone until fulfilled. Someone won’t read Revelation today without hearing the open word and say, “Oh, this must have been the seven stars from Korea.” That’s not going to happen. In fact, it didn’t happen.

[Student 1]
So my question is, does God give the understanding when you read the Bible? The word.

[Instructor]
Understanding is a gift. That’s right.

[Student 1]
So does that mean…

[Instructor]
It’s not earned by intelligence.

[Student 1]
So basically, I have the spirit, or I call it Holy Spirit, who will open that understanding. It could be any angels you’re talking about. Or it’s not like the same angel…

[Instructor]
Any spirit sent by God can do the job.

[Student 1]
So basically, I will receive different types of angels, or some specific angel will be with me all the time. That’s what I’m trying to understand.

[Instructor]
Good question. Hebrews 1:14 says angels are ministering spirits. Let’s look at that verse specifically. Ministering spirits.

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

 

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? So spirits… We all have spirits that are sent to serve us.

And they guide us throughout our lives. Although we weren’t fully aware of them. Not really.

But certain things would happen and be like, that must have been God. Probably, yeah. But that’s not the same thing as understanding revelation by reading.

But God has been guiding our steps. It’s not an accident that, for example, Brother George, you came into the gospel in the 90s. That wasn’t an accident.

That had to happen for you to be here today. That was heaven at work.

[Student 2]
Well, I can’t tell you the story of it or a testimony, a personal testimony about that. It would take a little longer. But maybe in the future, it’s a miracle how He brought me here and answered my prayer.

[Instructor]
God has been at work in our lives. That’s not what I’m saying, right?

He’s been at work in our lives. That’s why we’re here. I didn’t get here by accident.

The fact that I had a propensity for design and art is what got me to Atlanta so I can be in this ministry. Those things aren’t today. They’ve been there ever since.

[Student 1]
But you also said that those who are in Mount Zion also left. So, and then they already have the knowledge of the open word. So what happened with those?

Would they still have, because they already have the open word with them, right, when they left, would they be able to continue discerning about this?

[Instructor]
Ah, good question. You know, remember the parable, right? The seed that fell along the path represents one who does not understand and the evil birds of the air come and they take the seed away or they take the word away.

It’s possible for anyone at any time to become the path and for the word to be taken from them. So even what they had originally understood, they can lose that understanding. If you think about it, that’s kind of what happened to Judas, who also walked with Jesus for three and a half years.

And all it really takes is Satan to have a little bit of a foothold and it’s like all of the word vanishes and you become a totally different person. And then later on, after one realizes their mistake, they become remorseful and repentful. But it’s a hard thing for that to happen.

So just because someone had the truth initially does not mean that the truth will remain in them if they choose to betray the truth themselves. It will vanish and they’ll forget even the details that we talk about here. This is partly what Paul meant in Hebrews 6:4-8, when he talked about it is impossible for one who has tasted the power of the coming age to come back to repentance.

Because it will be like they crucified the Lord all over again. And it’s partly also because of pride too. I left this place I thought was true because I felt like they did things wrong.

And then when that person realizes their mistake, pride will not let them.

[Student 1]
Yeah, so you mentioned before Jesus appeared again, the first coming, nobody has the truth that you were saying. Nobody had the truth. And then Jesus started to re-establish the truth back to them again.

It’s going to be the same as happening right now, right? Nobody has the truth.

[Instructor]
We’ve lost something important.

People understand what happened in the Old Testament and during Jesus’ first coming, but what Jesus promised, no one fully grasps. Even teachings about the Old Testament and first coming are often incorrect.

[Student 1]
So for 2000 years, nobody has had the true guidance of the Holy Spirit?

[Instructor]
Not in the way we think or how it was taught. However, God and his angels were still at work. People still needed to hear about Jesus.

Even if someone didn’t fully understand, they could still spread the gospel. That’s been the success of the last 2000 years. The sheer number of people who know about Jesus today could be waiting for him.

That’s what heaven has been focused on.

[Student 1]
So many questions probably can’t be answered right now; we need to accept that as God’s pattern. For example, why didn’t God capture or destroy Satan immediately after Jesus’ resurrection? Why allow this vicious cycle to continue, having to re-spread the gospel repeatedly? It seems so repetitive.

Isn’t God tired of not ending the war?

[Instructor]
He’s exhausted. He hates this war. It’s a good question.

Think about it this way: People must choose God. It cannot be compelled. They must come to an understanding. The goal is for the most people to choose God.

But that takes time. It takes time to minister to someone and for them to change their mind. During that time, Satan is also at war.

Why has God allowed Satan to continue for so long? Good question. We don’t have the answer.

Remember that God knew how long things would take. He knew how long it would take for a number of people to know him.

[Student 1]
Yes, and how slow the gospel would spread, requiring it to be re-spread again, right? It was already spreading 2,000 years ago, and then they had to start over.

It’s like starting over again.

[Instructor]
For the last time. Because now God has said, “Here’s how it’s going to end.” Revelation.

This is where it ends.

[Student 1]
Can you confirm that New John won’t be replaced? Because we’re talking about the final New John, correct?

There could potentially be multiple New Johns, as different types of vessels may be needed.

[Instructor]
That wasn’t prophesied. Revelation details the end.

[Student 1]
We know the current New John is aging. The wedding banquet could happen anytime.

We might interpret that another person could become the next New John if the current one can’t continue. It could pass to another New John. Do you understand what I mean?

[Instructor]
That’s how they present it, but it won’t happen. It simply won’t occur.

It won’t happen because of what was prophesied. Prophecies must be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:45-47 states: “It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.” It has to happen that way.

Or as it says, “To the one who overcomes, he will be made a pillar in God’s temple. Never again will he leave it.” That must occur.

The real question is: do you believe in the prophecies? Many people doubt because we’ve seen numerous examples in the past.

I know about these examples. The list of people who made big promises and failed is endless. When the person died, like John Smith, people had to scramble to figure out how to continue. This has happened many times.

But for the true one, this won’t happen. For the real one, the promises will actually take place. I firmly believe this is the one, because of all that has already been fulfilled and explained. That’s the difference. It’s not easy to believe before it happens.

That’s what faith is.

[Student 1]
Okay.

[Instructor]
That’s the real essence of faith – to believe before it happens. It’s easy to believe after it occurs. Many people will be like Thomas.

It’s better to be like Peter, James, and John.

[Student 1]
So you’re saying the current New John is active and preaching every Wednesday and Sunday without skipping any day, right?

[Instructor]
Not only that, he’s preaching all around the world. In fact, God willing, he’ll be coming to the States. He’s conducting seminars.

He’s teaching many people. These seminars are huge, with many people coming to listen.

Even pastors attend.

[Student 1]
Okay.

[Instructor]
He’s still going strong. You don’t need to worry about that.

These are good questions. Very good questions.

I appreciate all the questions because they help me understand where you are in your understanding.

ANSWER

Yes, that’s a good question. When the time came to write the letters, John didn’t simply copy and paste Revelation 2 and 3. Instead, he wrote down the details of what people did and sent those letters to them.

We’ll learn more about these letters as we study. So, the answer is yes, he did write it down. However, it’s not as widely available as you might think because it’s part of the testimony.

To access this information, you have to hear it directly from him.

ANSWER

We should think about this in terms of the difference between working to fulfill and coming back fully. The latter means Jesus is here and actively reigning. What you’re referring to is essentially Revelation 20, when heaven fully comes down. This has not happened yet.

However, spirits are always working. As Jesus said in John 5:17, “My father is at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” So Jesus is working now, but that doesn’t mean he has fully returned.

Does that make sense? There’s a distinction between these two concepts.

[Student 1]
So Jesus is still working here through New John, but the hope we’re waiting for now is that heaven comes down in the wedding banquet?

[Instructor]
That’s right.

QUESTION 

Regarding spirits, since we are living in actual realities and people now basically know where heaven is, the Mount of Zion, are those influenced by the Spirit of God able to hear their voice? How do they distinguish between their thoughts, their own voice, or Satan’s voice? They must have a clear understanding of what voice they are listening to, correct?

How do you prove that what you’re listening to is from God and not Satan? Because right now you are in heaven, and they give you more confirmation, everything is being explained plainly.

ANSWER

Understanding how spirits work is crucial. The primary method spirits use is through words. This concept is supported by John 1:1, John 4:24, and John 6:63, which establish that God equals the Word, God equals Spirit, and words equal Spirit.

Spirits mainly operate through words, which manifest as thoughts in people’s minds. This doesn’t necessarily mean hearing a voice, but rather experiencing a thought. Someone unable to discern may blindly accept a thought as their own or from God. However, thoughts can originate from three sources: holy spirits, evil spirits, or oneself.

For instance:

1. “I’m hungry. Let me go grab a meal.” This likely came from you.
2. “Study my word for I want you to know me.” This probably came from God.
3. An evil spirit might give thoughts of doubt or tell you to stop.

It’s essential to be able to discern between these sources.

Until heaven comes down, everyone must contend with these thoughts. They don’t cease just because someone is at Mount Zion, as Satan continues trying to mislead or sway people until he’s captured and locked away. He’s still prowling around like a roaring lion.

We must remain vigilant. An example of someone who failed to keep his guard up and was influenced by the enemy was Judas Iscariot, as seen in John 13:2. Additionally, 1 John 4:1 advises us to test the spirits.

John 13:2
The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus.

The devil had already prompted Judas to betray Jesus. This thought appeared in Judas’s mind because of Satan’s influence. Instead of rebuking and dismissing the thought, Judas allowed it to take root in his heart, which eventually led to action. This serves as a lesson for everyone to test the spirits until the end comes. It remains a concern that we must be vigilant about.

 

[Student 1]
As a teacher guided by the Spirit of God, do you hear voices? Do you pray for the Spirit to guide you so we can understand your teachings? Can you read our minds or know what we’re thinking? Is this part of being guided by the Spirit?

[Instructor]
Are you asking if I can do such things?

[Student 1]
If everyone is guided by the Spirit, we should understand each other and receive the same message, right? You should be able to interpret what people are trying to say, even if they speak different languages or are foreigners. As a teacher, you’re guided by the Spirit to answer questions. Can you know exactly what to say? Sometimes it feels like you’re reading my mind.

[Instructor]
To address this question, we should look at Scripture. God’s Spirit speaks through the Word. When the Word is correctly taught, God’s Spirit is at work. If the Word is incorrectly taught, God’s Spirit is not at work. This is clearly illustrated in 1 Corinthians 2:6-16.

 

1 Corinthians 2:6-16
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him” —
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:
16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

 

I’ll quickly read some important points here. We speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of its rulers – the Pharisees, Sadducees, Synhedrin – who are coming to nothing. Instead, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, hidden and destined for our glory before time began.

None of these rulers understood it, for if they had, they wouldn’t have crucified the Lord of glory. As it is written, no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him. This quotes Isaiah 64:4.

Verse 10 states that God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

Who knows a man’s thoughts except his own spirit? Similarly, no one knows God’s thoughts except God’s Spirit. We’ve received the Spirit from God, not the world’s spirit, to understand what God has freely given us.

We speak not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths spiritually. The person without the Spirit doesn’t accept things from God’s Spirit, finding them foolish and incomprehensible because they’re spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things but isn’t subject to human judgment.

For who has known the Lord’s mind to instruct Him? But we have Christ’s mind. We see that God’s Spirit is always paired with God’s Word.

They’re inseparable, like water and H2O. You can’t have one without the other. We’re not just reciting verses; we’re explaining God’s Word, praying that God speaks through our words.

Jesus said in Matthew 10:19-20, “When they arrest you, don’t worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time, you’ll be given what to say, for it won’t be you speaking, but your Father’s Spirit speaking through you.” The Spirit speaks through us.

[Student 1]
I’m saying that when you’re discerning and examining a situation, you need to listen carefully to the question asked. Some people, like foreigners, might speak in broken English or another language. You’ll need to understand what they’re trying to express. The Spirit will give you that understanding to perceive what people are trying to say, and then you can deliver the message correctly.

[Instructor]
That’s the job of a skilled instructor or teacher. I like to think of Proverbs 27:17, which says, “As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another.” It compares people to tools. The sharper someone is, the more effective they are at cutting. Like Hebrews 4:12, which says, “The word of God is sharper than any double-edged sword. It divides soul and spirit, joints and marrow.”

I train to be good at hearing the real question behind what you’re saying because you don’t always ask the real question in your mind. A good instructor should be able to hear the question and answer the question behind the question too. This comes from experience and prayer. Sometimes I don’t know exactly what to say, but I pray and go to the Word, because often the Word explains itself.

That’s why we always go back to Scripture. Sometimes, especially in the early days, I’ll get an idea of where to go. We’ll read the passage, and an answer I wasn’t even thinking about is there. I’m thankful it didn’t come from me but from the Word.

[Student 1]
So when you have the Spirit of God, sometimes you can reveal things to say that will answer the person’s question. Does that happen?

[Instructor]
It happens, although it’s not like hearing a voice that says, “Say this.” We’re waiting for heaven to come down. Often, it’s a thought like, “Maybe let’s go to this verse.” You go there, and the answer is there.

To do that, the Scripture has to be in your mind. You have to have done the work previously to have that Word there so the Spirit can reference it for you. The Bible is a big book with over 30,000 verses, so it takes time to become a refined tool that God can use well.

That’s why we talk about sealing yourself, studying the Scripture, putting it in your mind and heart. Then God can use what’s within you to help someone else.

[Student 1]
Can you explain this situation to me? When I pray for God’s clarity or a specific thing, and I’m meditating, sometimes I hear a thought in my head. For instance, I might wonder about someone’s birthday, and then that person mentions their birthday without me asking. Or while you’re teaching, you might know exactly what I’m thinking about.

How would you or that person know what I’m thinking? How can I confirm if these thoughts are from God, my own thoughts, or just coincidence? Sometimes I hear things while meditating, and it seems like God wants to talk to me through many people, with a single message in different mouths. One person might talk about something and answer what I’m thinking, and then another person continues the thought. Do you understand what I’m saying?

[Instructor]
This is indeed a good point. Let’s consider Acts 8:26-35, which tells the story of the Ethiopian eunuch. This eunuch was on his chariot, heading back to Ethiopia after spending time in Jerusalem. He was reading the book of Isaiah, the prophet, but couldn’t understand it.

The eunuch had a humble heart, evident from his response when Philip approached and asked if he understood what he was reading. Philip, who had been instructed to run up to the chariot and stand near it, was able to reveal Jesus to the Ethiopian eunuch.

Amazingly, the eunuch then went on to spread the gospel. This demonstrates one way the Spirit can reveal truth: by using someone knowledgeable to explain it to others. Philip was clearly being led by the Spirit in this situation.

While there are various ways God can communicate with us, some methods might be misinterpreted by the recipient. So, we should consider: which way would God prefer to communicate with us? Would He rather someone know for sure directly?

To answer this, let’s look at Hebrews 1:1-2 and consider what it tells us about God’s preferred way for us to act.

Hebrews 1:1-2
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

 

In the past, God communicated through various means like parables, dreams, and visions, which people often didn’t understand, as seen with Daniel in Daniel chapter 12. However, during the first coming, God spoke more directly through the son.

If during the first coming, someone said to Jesus, “I’d rather listen to God directly,” Jesus would respond, “If you see me, you’ve seen the father. The words I speak are not my own but belong to the father who sent me.” It’s more direct to listen to Jesus’ words than to wait for dreams, visions, and parables, which was how God worked before fulfillment.

This method is superior and is happening today at the second coming. It’s better to know God’s will directly rather than trying to interpret vague messages that might be from God. The fulfillment of revelation is more direct, and we should rely on that.

[Student 1]
In a previous Q&A, there was a question about commands in different eras: Noah’s time – go to the ark; Moses’ time – go to the promised land; first coming – go to Jesus; second coming – flee to the mountain. I was trying to explain the difference, as in Noah’s and Moses’ time, people were fleeing physical death, while in the first and second coming, the concern is more about spiritual death and the afterlife.

[Instructor]
The difference isn’t as significant as you might think. The salvation logic remains the same throughout the Bible. Salvation means being delivered from Satan’s location to God’s location. God illustrates this in multiple ways for our understanding.

In Noah’s time, people were in Adam’s world, where Satan was. The ark represented the place of salvation, promised by God, where people needed to flee to avoid destruction by the flood. With Moses, Egypt was Satan’s world, and people had to leave and cross the desert to reach the promised land, the place of salvation.

[Student 1]
What happened to those who died during the flood or in the desert before reaching the destination?

[Instructor]
1 Peter 3:18-20 answers this. They went to Spirit Prison, where Jesus has been preaching for 2,000 years.

[Student 1]
Oh, that’s why Jesus has been busy for 2,000 years, preaching to them.

[Instructor]
Exactly. They didn’t receive salvation in the flesh due to disobedience, so they must hear the message again. At the first coming, people had to leave the Pharisees and Sadducees and come to Jesus. The logic remains the same, though it becomes more spiritual. Coming to Jesus brings life in the flesh through a better life, and definitely life in the spirit.

[Student 1]
I meant to highlight the difference in their focus on spiritual matters, as people were more concerned about the afterlife back then.

That’s why I asked my question that way. I wanted to see the distinction, and you understood my question. I’d like to add a brief story related to this.

Before asking that question in Q&A, I had been thinking about approaching guest Instructor with some questions, as he had offered to answer them on Saturday in one of his past lessons.

I was contemplating how to get his phone number without bothering him or asking my evangelist directly. I didn’t want to go through my evangelist, as they might wonder why I wasn’t asking them instead. I kept this thought to myself, wondering how I could obtain guest Instructor’s number without involving my evangelist.

Surprisingly, on that day, he offered his contact number without me even asking. It made me reflect on what had just occurred. He texted me his number without any prompting. This made me wonder: do things happen before you even ask?

This had been on my mind for a couple of days. I wanted to ask but didn’t want to go through you to get his number. I hadn’t expected him to be teaching in Q&A, so I was puzzled about why he gave me his number. It seemed to align with what I had been thinking about.

 

[Instructor]
Well, things can happen in unexpected ways. If God works in mysterious ways, such occurrences are possible. Do you see what I’m saying?

[Student 1]
That’s why I’m trying to understand how the Spirit works. It seems like he knew exactly what was on my mind and then prompted guest Instructor to give me his phone number so I could stay in contact with him. I’m wondering if this is just a coincidence.

[Instructor]
It’s difficult to determine in that specific instance. It might have been a coincidence, as we’ve reached this point in the class where instructors focus on particular students. That could be what it was. However, we know that God answers prayers and the Spirit can work through our thoughts. They can hear us as clearly as we can hear each other. So, perhaps that’s one way to look at it.

QUESTION 

The events of the Second Coming generally follow the logic of the First Coming, as seen in Jesus’ time.

Did Jesus know all the prophecies and how they would be fulfilled ahead of time, unlike New John who learns overtime and doesn’t see the whole picture at once?

For New John, everything unfolds like a blurry picture that gradually comes into focus until he sees the whole picture. Did this happen to Jesus as well, or did Jesus know everything beforehand?

ANSWER

John and Jesus are not the same. Jesus is the Son of God, so the Word of the Holy Spirit is very different. Jesus is the one who opened the scroll, so He knows everything, including the end goal. This is different from John, who is a person of flesh and blood. Things have to be revealed to him.

[Student 1]
It’s not the same situation. But in the first coming, did Jesus act as a person or as God?

[Instructor]
Jesus was in physical form, but born of the Holy Spirit, not of man’s seed. Jesus knew pretty much everything that had to happen.

That’s why when Jesus spoke to us, He was the one to reveal things to His disciples. The disciples were more like John today. John is actually more like the disciples, where things are revealed to them, and then they have to act accordingly.

For example, in Matthew 16, Jesus revealed to them for the first time that He had to die. He hadn’t been talking about that before. The disciples were surprised. Peter spoke up, and Jesus had to rebuke him, saying, “Get behind me, Satan.” The disciples did not know; it had to be revealed to them by Jesus.

[Student 1]
But you mentioned that Jesus is at work and that He’s working with New John. Why didn’t He reveal everything that’s going to happen beforehand?

[Instructor]
That’s a good question. Think of it more like it has to go in accordance with the way Revelation is recorded. Let’s look at an example. Revelation chapter 17 is a really good example of how things are revealed over time. If we go to Revelation 17, we’ll see…

Revelation 17:1-7
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 This title was written on her forehead:

 

So this is Revelation 17. Quite a lot has happened before this point.

In Revelation 17, John is understanding the revelation of the prostitute and of the beast she rides. He’s astonished. He sees the beast with seven heads and 10 horns again, which he saw in Revelation 13.

Things are being shown to him gradually as they are being fulfilled. He doesn’t know everything at the start, but at the end, he’s able to say, “I’ve seen all of these things.” Does that make sense?

He’s being shown these things as they take place.

[Student 1]
So why did Jesus allow to show in part, like partially, and not show everything at once since he’s already opened the scroll himself?

[Instructor]
How can you see what has not yet been fulfilled?

[Student 1]
But Jesus did, right? Jesus opened the scroll. He is the one revealing this to John.

But it’s not both are in harmony in the same will as Jesus’ will with the Father.

[Instructor]
So good question.

[Student 1]
So John must be seeing all this because Jesus already can tell him why, what’s happened because he knows what’s going to happen.

Instead of like, oh, you have to wait like Daniel. And at the proper time.

[Instructor]
Daniel had to wait until things were fulfilled. But of course, he died before things were fulfilled. There’s a difference between seeing a vision of the way things will be and seeing a vision of the way things are.

Revelation is a detail of the end state of the prophecies. For example, in Revelation 7, we see a great multitude. No one can count holding palm branches in their hands.

That has not happened yet. So if you ask me, what will this be like?

It hasn’t happened yet. So I cannot tell you until it happens. Then I will testify.

That’s the case that John is in. But we’re working to that time to come. What we can explain to you is how far along we are on that process already.

The 12 tribes have been established, and they are growing rapidly. Hundreds of thousands of people every year are coming to Mount Zion. That we can say clearly because it’s taking place.

But to say where the great multitude will be, where will they come from? What will they look like? We don’t know yet because it’s still being fulfilled.

John has to testify what he has seen and heard, meaning what has been fulfilled. So that we’re not ones who add and subtract, which we also cannot do. He’s very careful with the testimony that he gives because it has to be fulfillment.

It has to be evidence. You can only really tease a little bit of what has to come because he hasn’t seen it yet fully.

[Student 3]
That’s one of the things that really confuses me is the past, present, and future tense of Revelation. One thing specifically, you had mentioned that it’s a future tense that Jesus will anchor Satan and lock up the dragon. I think that comes from Revelation 20:11-15, where the new book is open, which is the book of life and the dead were judged by what is written in the books according to what they had done.

As he gave up the dead who were in it, death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

But what confuses me is like the other verses in the Bible that seem to say that Jesus had the keys of death and Hades and had locked up and defeated Satan when he fulfilled the resurrection. So that’s one thing that threw me off. Revelation 11:8, we went over in class today.

I am the living one. I died and behold, I am alive forevermore. I have the keys of death and Hades.

And then later, I mean, that’s some of those things confuse me. Yeah.

[Instructor]
Yeah, very good question. So first thing we’ll mention here is that all of Revelation is a vision of the future. From, of course, when John wrote it the first time, 2,000 years ago.

So everything inside is a future event. When Revelation is fulfilled, fulfillment takes time. Everything doesn’t happen all at once.

It was the case of the first coming, right? Prophecies of the Old Testament were being fulfilled throughout Jesus’s life.

[Student 3]
Well, that’s a great question.

[Instructor]
Revelation isn’t the same.

[Student 3]
Like if you read Revelation, it reads as if John were testifying that it had already happened. That’s right.

[Instructor]
But because when the testimony is given, it’s because it has now happened. So Revelation is written in the end state. John is seeing things in their end state.

But how the end state comes about has to be fulfilled. So we’re seeing the end. But then all of these things have to happen before we get to the end, right?

The great multitude has to be gathered. The tribulation has to take place. Yeah, exactly.

The tribes must be gathered.

[Student 3]
Right. So they have glimpses into the future. And then they wrote their prophecy.

So they testified and then the fulfillment was written about afterwards.

[Instructor]
Exactly. Yeah, prophecy is showing what happens, what it will be like at the end. But how do we get there?

Things have to happen.

ANSWER

Let’s untangle this. Ishmael was the son of desperation. Sarah was upset about not having a son and worried they would die without an heir. She asked Abraham to lie with her maidservant. This is different from being okay.

Looking at Revelation’s timeline, from start to finish, let’s say New John is here. Jesus appoints him, and events begin. Earlier, Jesus had appointed the seven stars who prepared the way, then betrayed. Jesus writes them letters. Let’s say John is now here.

There are events New John doesn’t fully know about yet because they haven’t happened. He can testify about what has taken place but can only explain future events in parables, saying it might be like this. He focuses on what has been fulfilled because as more is fulfilled, the rest becomes clearer. We still don’t know exactly yet.

If New John sees something in Revelation 13 but hasn’t seen Revelation 17, he can describe what’s been fulfilled in Revelation 13. However, details don’t come to light until Revelation 17 is revealed. Hence, he’s astonished, realizing things he saw earlier are actually different. For example, “Oh, I understand now. The person I saw earlier is actually the prostitute. I didn’t realize that before.”

He preaches about what he’s seen so far. More details come to light as things are fulfilled. People might think he’s got something wrong or is changing the testimony, but that’s not what’s happening. He’s testifying to what has been fulfilled and waiting patiently for what’s yet to be fulfilled. This can be interpreted as an error by someone who doesn’t understand how it has to take place.

[Student 1]
So he basically added more details over time.

[Instructor]
That’s right. The testimony becomes clearer and clearer.

[Student 1]
At this point, he hasn’t made any mistakes in interpreting.

[Instructor]
That’s right.

[Student 1]
Okay.

[Instructor]
You only testify to what has happened, what has taken place. There’s a difference between fulfillment and guessing the future.

[Student 3]
It helps to realize God is timeless and spaceless. He could see the end from the beginning. That’s why he’s the Alpha and Omega. Some things written at the beginning of the Bible came true. The first word in the Bible tells the whole story deeply. Using Gematria, it translates to God coming down with a crown of thorns for humanity’s redemption, according to His purpose.

With Revelation, as it’s fulfilled, we understand better. Looking back at church history, their understanding was limited. It’s taken 2000 years to understand things as well as we do. As God reveals more, our understanding improves. When the Instructor first heard this, he probably had a vague understanding, which got clearer over time. As he teaches, he likely understands better. The same applies to us as we hear it.

[Instructor]
I love that description. Imagine God not wanting to overwhelm us. He reveals over time when people are ready. Jesus and his disciples are a microcosm of the interaction between the one who knows and those who don’t know yet. As things are revealed, they can be clearly testified. Revelation is no different. It’s part of the Bible, part of God’s work, the conclusion of God’s work. No additional books need to be written because Revelation is the last one. We’re prayerfully waiting for everything to be fulfilled because this world, man, this world.

ANSWER

Babylon includes everything that is not of God. All religions are considered part of Babylon. Everything not of God is Babylon, and all must come out.

All nations must come out of Babylon. The work happens on two fronts:

1. Christians who are in Babylon but don’t know it.
2. Other religions who are in Babylon but don’t know it.

The approach is different in these two cases. For someone who is not a Christian, like a Buddhist who has studied Buddhism their whole life, you have to lay a foundation for the first time. With a Christian who knows and is waiting for Jesus, you can be more direct.

The end goal is for everyone to end up at Mount Zion. At Mount Zion, we are doing outreach programs for other religions, helping them realize that the Bible explains their religious scripture better than they thought. For example, they might say, “Our scripture also has a sacred tree, and from that tree, fruit gives life.” Then they realize that the tree they’re thinking about is the tree of life of God. They see how amazing the Bible is and come to hear the word of truth.

There are more connections than people realize. About 80% of wars in this world are religious-based because people only look at the divisions. They don’t actually speak to each other. When people start to speak to each other, it’s amazing how much God can reveal to them that they didn’t realize before.

Both fronts have to happen. Both works have to happen.

ANSWER

So good question. So we have to think of it like this. Is God sitting in heaven doing nothing?

No. No. Like Jesus said in John 5, 17, my father is at his work to this very day.

So God in heaven are working for every single person to do what?

[Student 2]

Hear the open word. 

[Instructor]

Exactly. So, God and Jesus are preparing the situation, and the angels are also preparing it for each person to hear this word. It’s not an accident that you met the person you met at the time you met them, who invited you here. That was the angels working in the background, ensuring the situation was right for you to be here.

This is happening for every person, especially those who are born of God’s seed but have yet to be harvested.

[Student 1]

But there are stories—stories of people transformed, whose lives changed. That’s the reason they experienced conviction and conversion. Some may say it’s a miracle to see their lives transformed; they believed what they are experiencing and what they believe is the truth. They encountered God and Jesus as their Savior, and that is the reason they believe in God. And then suddenly, they realize, “Oh, what you have been learning and believing are all false.”

[Instructor]

Yes, certainly. Think of it like this: there are those whose hearts are pure towards God. If they had the truth, they would cling to it, but the truth has not yet come to them. So, God acknowledges people with that kind of heart.

What I don’t want us to do is to say that everything that happened to me in the past was either false or true. What I want us to understand is this: God, knowing the situation we were all in, was positioning things for us to get here. And God answers prayers for those who aren’t yet in His kingdom too, because He is God.

God wants to ensure that someone reaches where they need to be. For some people, something had to happen to them years ago for them to arrive at this point. They would not be ready to listen to this word if that event did not occur 30 years ago, 40 years ago, or even five years ago, because God and heaven were working in the background to ensure everyone could be here.

So, we can’t say that in the past, God was not there, or that God was there in everything. We just know for sure that God was present in specific moments. I’m not sure exactly which moments those were; God knows. But you are here now for a reason.

That’s what it means. If you turn to Acts 17, we’re not just taking my word for it. Let’s look at Acts 17:26-31.

So it says:

“From one man, he made every nation of men that they should inhabit the whole earth. And he determined the times set for them and the exact places they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

For in him, we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, we are his offspring. Therefore, since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image made by man’s design and skill.

In the past, God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.” Amen. 

 

Some very important things were said here by Paul. First, that God determined the times and places where we would be so that we can find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Then he said we should not equate God to idols, as the people of the past did. And what did it say in verse 30? In the past, God did what?

[Student 2]

Overlooked such ignorance.

[Instructor]

Yes, He overlooked such ignorance because they didn’t know any better. But now, meaning the time when the word has been fulfilled, He commands people everywhere to repent.

So, that same logic is happening today.

QUESTION 

Can you clarify whether the blood of Jesus on the cross at the first coming has an effect on salvation before the foundation of Shincheonji? Do all people, including the first Christians in that area, still need to hear about the open word? Does the blood and flesh of the Lamb fully take effect in the second coming?

Or is what Jesus did merely a prerequisite for the real salvation that comes in the second coming? That’s what I’m trying to understand.

ANSWER

Good question. The effect of Jesus’ blood has specific effects related to two different eras. Here’s what I mean by that.

At the time of the first coming, when Jesus died on the cross, that event was necessary because there needed to be a permanent atonement for all sin—past, present, and future. Jesus had to die on the cross for this to be possible. There had to be the sacrifice of the righteous to atone for the sins of the unrighteous.

Without the first coming, salvation today wouldn’t be possible. When Jesus died on the cross and his blood was shed for the atonement of sin, it essentially provided salvation for the spirit for all who believed. However, people still died physically.

When we speak of salvation in our time, we mean that not only the spirit will receive salvation, but the flesh will too. When heaven comes down, there will be no more death, no more mourning, no more crying, and no more pain. That is the event we are looking forward to.

The people who will take part in that event while they are here on earth will be those who are washed by the blood of the Lamb, who do not receive the mark of the beast, do not worship idols, do not eat food sacrificed to idols, and do not commit spiritual sexual immorality. Essentially, they keep the new covenant.

[Student 1]
So, the first Christians—what I mean is, their salvation at that time is not complete. They still have to learn the open word when they die.

[Instructor]
Well, everyone has to be judged by the same standard. But yes, that is correct. They couldn’t have known what we know today because today hadn’t happened yet. Their standard of salvation was simply believing in Jesus, as that was the only thing possible at that time. And God acknowledges that.

[Student 1]
So, basically, they have to…

[Instructor]
That does not mean that over time, people were doing the same things the early Christians did, who were taught by the disciples and apostles. I’m referring to the last 2,000 years; because of the branching, we haven’t been learning the same things they did back then, if that makes sense.

[Student 1]
So, basically, you’re saying that what happened at the first coming—Jesus dying on the cross—is not enough for salvation until the open word occurs.

[Instructor]
What Jesus did at the first coming was part one of a two-part plan. However, we didn’t fully understand part two yet. And God recognized that ignorance on our part.

[Student 1]
So for everyone who died before the foundation of Shincheonji, they still have to decide if they want to receive the open word while they are in the spirit prison.

[Instructor]
Right, as stated in 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6.

[Student 1]
So, they have a chance. They still have the choice to accept the open word.

[Instructor]
Exactly.
Just like the people in Noah’s time, right? These are the people specifically mentioned in 1 Peter 3, who had to hear, or who heard, even after Jesus came and preached to them, even after they died in the flood. You need to think of it this way: everyone has to be judged by the same standard.

It would not be fair to throw someone into hell if they have not yet had a chance to hear about the open word. This was the case for all of my ancestors. My father was the first Christian in our family.

All of my ancestors had never even heard about God before. So, what happens to them?

[Student 1]
The reason Jesus left and then the night came is that Jesus came here to atone for sin and then planted the seed that… They eventually want to wait until everything is harvested, right? That everything is spreading.

So, then he comes and just harvests.

[Student 1]
So, basically, he just plants some teaching there and then sees what happens throughout 2,000 years to see how it grows. And this is what happened.

[Instructor]
Well, it’s a little more like Jesus and God knowing what will happen, but the work still has to get done. People still have to choose God and Jesus, right? God could have wiped the slate clean, but that wouldn’t have been very effective for his creation.

You don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. So, God instituted a plan of salvation from the moment Adam sinned. God’s plan began to play out so that people can choose him because people still have to choose God. What God and Jesus did was institute a plan to have the most number of people choose him.

Okay. But in order for that plan to play out, it took 2,000 years.

QUESTION 

I have a situation. For example, if I have someone with me for one month and I know that person is going to die in our current time, how can I save that person from going to a spirit prison?

I cannot simply tell them that they need to believe in the open word, as that person must go through all the classes, right? The Bible study. I cannot reveal the secrets of heaven according to the proper time.

That person has to go through all these harvest processes and sealing in nine months in order to be saved. Yet, I know this person could die at any moment.

How can I help that person be saved if they haven’t gone through all the processes and met the requirements for salvation to go to heaven? Do you understand what I mean? How can I talk to that person in such a short amount of time?

ANSWER

Okay. Good question. The way to understand this is as follows.

The center is vigorous, and I can say this with certainty. The reason is that we are seeking the number first. The number must be those who are 100% sealed and know the word extremely well.

The great multitude, however, is made up of everyone else. Who knows? I’ve heard miraculous stories about those who studied and had illnesses that vanished, right?

There are testimonies of people like that at Mount Zion. They had more time, but their hearts were set on doing their best for God at that moment, whether they had a month, six hours, or six years.

They studied as much of the word as they could. Some even passed away during the class, but they had already begun their journey.

So, who knows what happens afterwards? I’m sure things would go well for them. But it is indeed a hard situation.

So, if someone wants to study, they have a month.

[Student 1]
It seems like this is not meant for everybody, right?

[Instructor]
The 144,000 is a fixed number of people. But after that, the standard will change. What I mean is that it probably won’t be as difficult.

People will come and learn. Right now, we are looking for the best of the best who will be priests.

[Student 1]
That’s why I was thinking about what happens to people with mental disorders. What happens to the homeless? There are so many different situations—thousands of situations.

[Instructor]
No more death, mourning, crying, or pain. So, who knows what these people will be able to do when heaven comes down? The world will not be the same.

When heaven comes down, it will be very different. I cannot even describe what that will be like, as my description will pale in comparison to the reality.

ANSWER

I’m sure some of them struggled. If you think about Thomas, there were indeed some disciples who had doubts, even after Jesus showed himself to them.

[Student 1]
But nobody was expecting him to rise from the dead, right?

[Instructor]
Not that soon. Yes. It wasn’t until after he was raised that everything Jesus said fully clicked into place for them.

If we look at John chapter 2, we can see why this was the case. Jesus knew this, but he still needed to say these things. Later on, it would make sense for them when they witnessed the reality. In John chapter 2, starting from verse 19, it says: Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

This gives a clue about what Jesus intended to do, but his disciples did not realize it yet. Verse 20 states that the Jews replied, “It has taken 46 years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Pause here; this realization came to John after it happened, and he recorded it in his testimony. Verse 21 clarifies that the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scriptures and the words that Jesus had spoken. Amazing.

They walked with him for three and a half years, and there were still some things they didn’t fully understand or believe, but they followed him anyway. Eventually, everything clicked into place.

[Student 1]
This is similar to the situation with the transfiguration, right? Peter, James, and John actually saw the transfiguration, and Jesus asked them not to tell anyone until later, right? Until he was resurrected.

So, those 3 disciples actually believed in the resurrection—that Jesus would be resurrected.

[Instructor]
Well, Jesus showed this to those who were the most mature among the twelve. It’s not that no one else would hear this word; it’s more about showing Peter, James, and John first, and then saying the others will understand when I return.

The rest will grasp it when I come back or when I am raised from the dead. Because you guys are ready to handle this now, while the others aren’t yet. But that doesn’t mean they will never hear it. It just means they aren’t ready yet. God seeks those who are the most prepared, who can then help spread the word.

That’s why the class is very structured.

[Student 1]
If you relate this to the second coming, with the first resurrection, it’s going to be the same story, right? Everyone wondered if it would happen or not, right? Until it gets fulfilled

What happened with the first resurrection was that it occurred, and then 500 people witnessed it, spreading the good news everywhere. That’s when Christianity began to gain popularity, right? People started to believe in what happened.

Same thing is going to happen with the first resurrection happened; it’s likely that the same effect will occur again, right?

[Instructor]
Yes, absolutely.
That’s what we’re praying for.

[Student 1]
But even Peter believed that Jesus was going to be resurrected, yet he returned to his life as a fisherman. What does that mean?

He went back to his old life. That’s why when Jesus was resurrected, he went to find them because everyone was returning to fishing.

[Instructor]
Well, he had only been dead for three days, so they didn’t fully realize he would rise again so soon. It felt like something significant had ended, but then Jesus showed himself. It was crucial for Jesus to reveal himself so that they could understand everything he had told them, allowing the gospel to spread.

If Jesus hadn’t revealed himself, we wouldn’t have the gospel today. The gospel is built on the fact that Christ resurrected as prophesied. Some people need to see it before they can truly believe.

Some will believe by hearing the testimony in the word.

[Student 1]
That’s why many people need to have faith in the first resurrection, because I think a lot of people will have doubts about it.

[Instructor]
Oh, for sure. Definitely. But those who understand and have the word will find it easier to believe.

It’s easier to believe when someone has the word. It’s much harder when someone doesn’t yet have the word.

If we think about the people at the time of Moses, they witnessed God perform many miracles before they received the law. God acted in miraculous ways so they would know he was with them.

Eventually, God decided it was time to give the people the law so they could know and follow his words more directly. There is always a transition from the miraculous to the tangible. When Jesus was here, many miraculous things were happening.

The disciples even performed miracles. But what carried Christianity was the word, the testimony, the gospel.

ANSWER

It would have been harder. It would have been harder because you have to think of it this way: Jesus needed to shake the people up a little bit so that the crust from their eyes could come off.

That had to happen first. At that time, the people didn’t really have the word; they only had their understanding of the law. That was all they had, and not everyone was literate either. So, you have to consider that the miracle was meant to capture people’s attention, allowing them to listen to what Jesus had to say.

It was a way to eliminate as many prejudices as possible so that people could listen, because the more important thing was the word. Jesus was balancing this delicately. He said, if you don’t listen to my words, at least look at what I’m doing. At the very least, look at what I’m doing.

It was really hard at that time. It’s hard even now, because it almost entirely revolves around the word. But truly, the ultimate miracle is people understanding what has been sealed for 2000 years. That is a miracle.

Moreover, the fact that there was someone diligent enough to carry this word for over 40 years, enduring lots of persecution, is significant. The fact that hundreds of thousands of people are hearing this word simultaneously in the fastest growing ministry—this is a miracle. It’s a miracle.

So, that’s something I give God thanks for.

QUESTION

Since we have already watched the Revelation Fulfillment videos, New John had to overcome many challenges to establish the 12 tribes and create Sincheonji. So, what exactly is he overcoming? Is it simply because he had to send letters to the churches?

Is that how he overcame?

ANSWER

He overcame a lot. Remember, there were many years between what we’re learning and now. In Revelation chapter 11, we see that he faced a lot of persecution—significant persecution.

He realized that he still had to go and preach. Imagine going to people who don’t want you there and are trying to listen to what you have to say.

But he still has to deliver the message. What do you think people like that would likely do?

[Student 1]
Did he actually have a public debate against the pastor of Babylon?

[Instructor]
He went to the Tabernacle Temple. Specifically, we are talking about his interactions with the Tabernacle. He went there repeatedly, hundreds of times.

But what about now?

[Student 1]
The Tabenacle Temple was destroyed. That’s why they founded Sincheonji. What about today?

He actually had open debates with the Babylon pastors today? They were talking to each other on the debate stage, where everyone could see.

[Instructor]
However, debates are not very effective for changing people’s minds—not really. Discussions are much more effective.

What he is doing now is having discussions where people sit around a table and share their understanding, discussing their scriptures. This is even happening with different religions, which is very interesting.

[Student 1]
Do we have videos of that?

[Instructor]
Yes, absolutely. There’s actually an organization that we haven’t talked about yet. There are so many things to cover.

This organization, started by the chairman, is called HWPL, which stands for Heavenly Culture, World Peace, Restoration of Light.

The purpose of this organization is to hold peace talks and religious dialogues between Christians and people from different denominations and religions. You might have a table with a Hindu, a Muslim, a Sikh, and a Scientologist, all discussing their scriptures.

What we find is that the Bible can explain their scriptures as well. In their texts, they might say, “Oh yes, we have a sacred tree in our scriptures too.” They may not realize that there is also a sacred tree in the Bible.

And then chairman will explain this is the meaning of the sacred tree like that. And then they will say, wow, that’s so cool. So this is actually how part of what God’s plan is of reaching all people.

Including those who don’t believe in Jesus yet. Because God is that amazing.

QUESTION 

Do we actually have an official textbook for what we are learning? People take notes, but not everyone takes the same notes as others.

Some individuals may not be very good at taking notes, which means the information can vary. If we had a textbook, everyone would be on the same page.

ANSWER

Yes. When someone enters Mount Zion, there are many materials they can access by God’s grace. So, the answer is yes.

However, the focus for now is on the Bible. There is indeed plenty of material that one can receive upon entering God’s kingdom that can be used for study.

This word has been around for a long time and has been recorded. That’s great.

[Student 1]
So, that’s the official textbook. I still have one last question.

[Instructor]
Everyone’s here.

ANSWER

Yes, if you look at Revelation 22, the tree of life bears 12 crops of fruit. How often? Every month.

Every month. And every month at Mount Zion, a new class opens. Logistically, because we have a small team—there are probably 60 evangelists spread across many classes—resources sometimes need to be shared when necessary.

Therefore, classes may merge to share resources. This is mainly a logistical decision, so not all classes have to merge. Some finish with the team that was there, while others may merge. The harvest is ripe, but the workers are few.

[Student 1]
Oh, because of the lack of workers.

[Instructor]
Yes, the lack of workers. Or some workers may need to help with a different class that just opened. There are many logistics involved in running a center like this.

[Student 1]
So basically, every month, you’re saying there’s a new class coming. In December, are there any moments when we say, “Oh, we’re going to go back to the center instead of continuing online Bible study”? Is there any plan for everyone to gather?

[Instructor]
The online version will continue to remain. However, we would like to start gathering people in person for those who are local to […]. This will happen soon.

Students who finish the first time and decide to enter Mount Zion can take the class again from the start. Usually, you’ll stay with the same team because once this class is over, I will start a brand new one from the beginning.

[Student 1]
But you mentioned that Sincheonji is very organized. For instance, if I prefer to go to the center, but my city doesn’t have one, what happens if I want to go to Los Angeles, where there is one?

Since I enter through the [..] tribe, why can’t I go through the tribe from Los Angeles or any other city that has a local branch? This way, I could have more in-person communication with the brothers and sisters. Can I transfer?

[Instructor]
It is possible to transfer. Think of it like this: you are attached to a branch and were born from a particular branch. A fruit doesn’t necessarily jump from one branch to another; it is attached to the specific tree or branch that birthed it.

You were born from the […] tribe, so you belong to the […] tribe logically. However, sometimes, based on situations, someone could switch tribes. That discussion would be with HQ. But it is possible, and we can talk more about these things later.

ANSWER

So, if we can turn to Revelation chapter 12, I will show a couple of verses that will help us understand the logic behind the male child and who they truly are in reality as well. We will see a little bit about that.

Revelation 12:1-5
A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

 

In Revelation chapter 12, we receive several clues about who this will be. This understanding comes from the parables we have learned. A few key points are important here.

When we reach Revelation 12, we will examine these details more closely. In Revelation 12:1-5, we are introduced to a few characters, starting with a woman.

This woman is clothed with the sun, moon, and stars. Immediately, the significance of the sun, moon, and stars should be clear. They represent important elements for our understanding.

So, who is this woman, in reality, based on our understanding of the parables? She is a pastor. But which place does this pastor belong to? This pastor represents God’s chosen people.

However, we also learned about those who went dark and fell. This refers to the Tabernacle Temple. The head pastor of the Tabernacle Temple is significant. In Revelation 6, we will explore what happened with the sun, moon, and stars.

They went dark and fell. Oh, interesting. She is clothed with the sun, moon, and stars, which means that these celestial bodies surround her and belong to her.

The head pastor of the Tabernacle Temple gives birth to a male child. This indicates that she is pregnant and giving birth.

She gives birth to the male child, who is holding something. What is the male child holding? An iron scepter.

The iron scepter should sound familiar; it refers to someone given authority to rule. When it says “authority to rule,” it means authority to teach. This is not ruling like a king rules in the world, but rather like a priest-like pastor teaches.

As stated in 1 Peter 2:9, we are a royal priesthood. That is the type of ruling that one with the iron scepter in Revelation can do—teaching.

But where else have we seen the iron scepter? This is not the first time we have encountered it in Revelation. We have seen it in Revelation 2:27. To whom is the iron scepter given? To the Lamb. The Lamb has it, and He gives it to the one who overcomes.

So, what does this mean about the male child? The male child is New John. He is the one who overcomes. We know that the one who overcomes is New John because the reality has appeared.

What does it mean that the pastor gave birth to the male child? Does this mean that New John came from them? He’s speaking the word. But remember, this pastor is leading a people who went dark and fell. What happened? New John joined a church first.

New John was briefly a member of the tabernacle so that he could see and hear the events taking place there. Eventually, he left. After that, he encountered Jesus, returned to witness the events, and wrote the letters.

This is what it means when it says she gave birth. Similar to the relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus, we understand that Jesus was actually in the temple of John the Baptist, according to the prophecy in Malachi 3:1. This allowed him to witness the events happening in John’s tabernacle and then testify about them.

When his disciples asked him why it says Elijah must come first in Matthew 17, Jesus replied that Elijah has already come and that they have done whatever they wanted to him. The disciples then realized he was talking about John the Baptist.

Jesus can speak about this clearly because he was there to witness it. John needed to be in the tabernacle to see the events so that he could later testify. What about the brothers?

Let’s explore a bit more about these brothers, as they are mentioned several times in the book of Revelation. Before we reach Revelation 12, we get some introductions to who these people are. Our first clue is found in Revelation 3.

Here, we see how Jesus describes who some of these people are.

Revelation 3:4
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

 

Yet you have a few among you who have not soiled their clothes. What does “soiled” mean? It means to make dirty. The few who have not done this indicate that their clothes remain clean. Their clothes are still clean.

Now, what are spiritual clothes? Spiritual clothes refer to one’s heart, one’s doctrine, and one’s actions.

These are their clothes. One’s heart, one’s doctrines, and one’s actions are their clothes. According to Revelation 19:8, this means that heaven acknowledges their actions as righteous. So, that’s our first clue. The next clue about the brothers can be found in Revelation chapter 6.

Revelation 6:6
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

 

One quart of wheat and three quarts of barley, or two pounds and six pounds, respectively, should give us a clue about what wheat and barley represent: the word of God. The seed is indeed the word of God.

Barley doesn’t have a seed; the remnants are what is extracted. These remnants can be considered remnants, but think about the field from Matthew 13. Wheat and barley are actually very similar, and both refer to the same group of people—those who have heard the warnings, decided to follow them, and come out. This is why it states, “do not gather.”

Among the four living creatures, a quart of wheat is valued at a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley are also valued at a day’s wages. It is instructed not to damage the oil and the wine, which are extracted. These few people, as mentioned, are like a remnant. They accept the oil and the wine, representing the word and the testimony. Therefore, these individuals are extracted and are not destroyed along with the remaining wheat and barley, which ultimately turn out to be weeds.

These are people who come out of the place that is being destroyed, known as the Tabernacle Temple. Within the Tabernacle Temple, there were a few who heeded the words of New John and were the first to come out. Revelation chapter 12 refers to them as his brothers.

Now, let’s return to Revelation chapter 12 to see them one more time.

Revelation 12:10-11
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11 They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.

 

Our brothers. For the accuser of our brothers.

So, the male child and his brothers. The male child is New John. We know this because of the iron scepter.

His brothers are those who did not soil their clothes in the Tabernacle Temple. They were the first to come out and heeded the warning of New John.

We will see them in a little bit more detail when we get to Revelation 12.

ANSWER

The difference isn’t as big as you think. In fact, they are the same thing. We can understand this by looking at the logic of the eras and what has tended to happen over the last 2000 years. A timeline can be drawn starting from the time of Moses.

From the time of Moses to today, there is a significant span. Moses lived first, and then about 1500 years later, Jesus arrived. After another 2000 years, we find ourselves here today. So, that’s 1500 years and 2000 years.

At the time of Moses, in order for the people to receive redemption, there was a particular law given to them. God came to Moses and provided the law. However, the importance of the law was not to offer permanent atonement for their sins. The people had to come to the temple and offer a yearly sacrifice for atonement, repeating this process over and over again. The blood of a physical lamb could not permanently take away their sins. Therefore, the law served as an annual reminder of their sins.

Their responsibility was to keep the law to the best of their ability. For a time, they managed to keep the law, although it was quite shaky. Soon, however, the people fell into periods of darkness. God would bring them out of darkness, but then they would fall back into it. This cycle happened repeatedly over time, with short periods of light followed by darkness.

This cycle continued until King Solomon broke the covenant, which was the largest covenant with God. From that point on, Israel remained in darkness. During this time, God spoke through prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel, with Malachi being the last prophet.

Between 700 and 400 years before Jesus, the prophets spoke about what would happen in the future. However, the people had largely descended into darkness, and no one held the truth anymore. Additionally, many branches began to form during this time: Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Zealots, scribes, and teachers of the law. Each group represented a different branch.

Very few people believed the same things, and individuals within these branches claimed they were the ones doing it right, often unaware that their branch had splintered long before their time. When Jesus came, he had to reset the record. He did not come to confirm that this person or that person was correct on their branch. Instead, Jesus said to abandon all the branches and follow him. He declared, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”

During this time, Jesus also stated that no one can know the Father except the Son, and no one knows the Son except the Father and those to whom the Father chooses to reveal him. Thus, the role of Jesus was to restore the light at his first coming. However, Jesus also gave us a warning.

John 9:1-4
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.

 

While I’m in the world, I am the light of the world. Night is coming. Why would Jesus make such a promise? If He is here and it is not possible to know Jesus, how can there possibly be night?

Just like what happened at the first coming, before that time, when people deviate from the path set by Jesus and His disciples and apostles, they leave the path of light. Though they proclaim to believe in Jesus, they do not believe in the same Jesus. The disciples and apostles did their best to teach the word of life.

But then they died. As promised, night came. It wasn’t just a couple of denominations that formed during this time; unfortunately, over 30,000 different denominations emerged. No one is on the original branch that they think they are.

As Jesus promised, night came. Another way Jesus expressed this was in Matthew 13, when He talked about how the farmer sows good seed in the field. But what does the enemy also do? He comes and sows weeds in the same field. Weeds like to spread, so weeds were sown in the same field.

This conveys the same message: night is coming, and there are weeds in the field. The devil controls the world. However, what God and Jesus have been doing, at the very least, over the last 2,000 years is allowing a sheer number of people to hear about Jesus. That has been the success of the last 2,000 years.

We are grateful for the work of all those evangelists and missionaries who did this important work. It wasn’t perfect, and there were things done in the name of God that are not good—things not to be proud of. But at the very least, 2 billion people call Jesus Lord and are waiting for Him to return.

God and Jesus ensured that their message continued over the last 2,000 years, even though their teachings were not always fully correct. At the very least, people heard about Jesus and waited for his return. This is what it means when it says that the harvest field is ripe.

There are people all over the world who are waiting for Christ to come, but not all of them possess the word of truth. This is the problem that needs to be addressed.

People must hear about the fulfillment of Revelation. They need to understand what Christ and God are doing at this time so they can come out during this era.

The place we are meant to go has now appeared, and the goal is for everyone to gather there. During the first coming, the task was to believe in and know Christ.

However, the way to do this became somewhat obscured by various opinions, which began almost immediately. This is truly sad.

Examples of this can be found in Galatians 1, which illustrates how Satan began to work among God’s people at that time.

In Galatians 1, starting from verse 6, it states, “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel.”

This letter was written by Paul to the early Christian church, shortly after Jesus had ascended. Even then, there was already a problem in the church.

Satan worked quickly to sow weeds. Continuing in verse 7, it says, “Which is really no gospel at all. Evidently, some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.”

“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned. As we have already said, so now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel other than what you have accepted, let him be eternally condemned.”

Paul warns, “Am I trying to win the approval of men or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I wouldn’t be a servant of Christ.”

This warning is crucial because different gospels began to emerge, just as the weeds Jesus promised started to sprout in the same field.

After 2,000 years, that field has become quite infested with weeds and needs to be cleared out. But first, the wheat must be harvested.

By God’s grace, this is what is happening right now, at this very moment.

ANSWER
So let’s understand the logic of Jesus coming.

What we need to do is recognize that there is a difference between the time when Jesus is working to fulfill and the time when he comes fully.

John 14:1-4
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

 

Jesus was speaking to his disciples. At this point, he wasn’t glowing yet. He told his disciples, “I am going to prepare a place for you. When I go to prepare this place and it is complete, I will come and take you to be where I am.”

Later, Jesus promises that they will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. The holy city, New Jerusalem, is the place that Jesus promised to prepare. Thus, Jesus was working in the spiritual world.

As stated in John 5:17, “My Father is at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” As Jesus shares these things, after the disciples die, they also help Jesus with this construction project. This is figurative.

The reason for this is that their names are written on the 12 gates. It’s similar to a carpenter or a bricklayer leaving their signature on one of the bricks, saying, “It was me. I was here. I built this one.” In this way, they have been working in the spiritual world.

When Revelation is being fulfilled and the time comes, Matthew 24 provides an example of what it means when Jesus says he is working—what it signifies for him to be working at the second coming to fulfill prophecy.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

So, what did Jesus promise to do? When the sun, moon, and stars go dark and fall.

When this event happens, it refers to Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Chapters 2 and 3 mark the beginning. But where does it say that the sun, moon, and stars go dark and fall in Revelation?

It is in Revelation chapter 7.

This is the work of gathering the elect that Jesus prophesied about. This work has been ongoing for many years, where Jesus and the angels harvest the elect and bring them out.

They bring them out of the field and into the barn, also known as the mountain, or Mount Zion. Jesus and the angels are working right now. Does this mean they have returned fully? No.

They are first doing the work of gathering the elect. What does it mean when they come back fully? It means they will be dwelling here.

Not just in the spiritual world, but also in the physical world. That will not happen until Revelation is fully fulfilled.

What events are being awaited? Two significant events.

The wedding banquet of the Lamb and the first resurrection. These are the moments when heaven comes down fully.

Not just temporarily to do the work of harvest, but to come down permanently. To dwell with those on the mountain. However, they will still be in spiritual form at that time.

The people at Mount Zion will change. There will no longer be a division between spirits and flesh; the two will become one. This will be a wonderful time, a blessed time.

Then comes the healing of the nations, as the word goes out that it is time to heal the nations. Whether someone decides to enter now, everyone will be confronted with this word.

The whole world will hear it. The message has been given now, before it happens.

If someone leaves now, they will encounter this word again. They will face a tough decision. A decision related to pride.

Having heard this word before and left, now it is being heard again by everyone.

The question arises: Will it be possible to lay down pride and return after having left before? This will be a difficult decision to make. It is hoped that anyone in this situation will be able to overcome themselves and come back.

But everyone will hear this word again. Therefore, it is better to come when it is first heard.

ANSWER

[Instructor]: Oh, good question. Very good question. First, let’s understand God. When we understand God, the question will make a lot more sense, and the answer will be clear.

What are the different ways God is described? There are many correct answers. Let’s hear a few. How is God described in the Bible?

[Student 1]: He’s the Word.

[Instructor]: Amen.

[Student 2]: What else? He’s a spirit. Amen. He made himself, well, didn’t make himself, but he’s not a created being. He’s self-existent. Amen.

[Instructor]: He’s a spirit. He’s self-existent. What else? There are plenty of descriptions.

[Student 1]: He’s the Creator.

[Instructor]: Amen. He’s the Creator. Good one. What else?

[Student 3]: Mighty Counselor.

[Instructor]: Amen.

[Student 3]: Jehovah. Yahweh. Alpha and Omega.

[Instructor]: Amen. Amen. Amen.

[Student 2]: Light.

[Instructor]: Amen. He is light.

[Student 2]: He’s our Father.

[Instructor]: Father. It’s hard to keep pace; you guys are saying so many good ones. Genesis 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 1:4, and Psalm 84:11 all affirm he is our Father. There are quite a few verses for this one. Let’s also mention Matthew 11:27 and a couple of others that are really good.

Now, let’s turn to 1 Timothy 6:15-16.

[Evangelist]: Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15-16: “Which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.”

[Instructor]: Amen. Some really good descriptions here. He is the Ruler. He is blessed. He is immortal. And what kind of light does he exist in?

[Student 1]: Unapproachable light.

[Instructor]: Unapproachable light. Why?

[Student 2]: Because anybody who sees my face will die.

[Instructor]: Amen. Yes, like what he said to Moses: “I cannot show you myself because no one can see me with these physical eyes and live.” So, God is many things. He is our Ruler and our Creator. But there’s one more thing I want us to remember about God. Let’s turn to Mark 12.

This is very important, and I don’t know if we’ve discussed this too much in class, but in order to answer the question, we must discuss this. It will lead us into one of the bigger weeds in Christianity that is difficult to uproot but needs to be addressed.

Let’s go to Mark 12:29-31.

[Evangelist]: “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no command greater than these.'”

[Instructor]: Well said, teacher, the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.” Amen.

[Instructor]: Amen. So, a very important distinction is made here. It says that God is two.

[Student 2]: No, God is one.

[Instructor]: God is three.

[Student 2]: No, he’s one. Four. One.

[Instructor]: God is one.

[Student 1]: One.

[Instructor]: One. God is one. What does that mean? Let’s dive deep into this. Unfortunately, one of the biggest weeds from Babylon is that God is three. But that is not biblical because God is uno.

So how do we understand this? God is one. Then who is Jesus?

[Student 2]: His son.

[Instructor]: Amen. That’s how Jesus refers to himself in relation to God. But let’s break this down a little bit more. Who is Jesus? What are some things that come to mind right away when you think about Jesus?

[Student 2]: Son of God.

[Instructor]: Amen.

[Student 1]: Savior.

[Instructor]: Savior. Amen.

[Student 2]: He’s the beginning and the end.

[Instructor]: Amen. He is also the beginning and the end. Good. Jesus is also Alpha and Omega. What else?

[Student 2]: Is he the vine?

[Instructor]: He is the vine. The true vine. Good.

[Student 2]: He is the atonement for our sins.

[Instructor]: He is our Redeemer. Amen. Come on. We know who Jesus is. What else?

[Student 3]: The Lamb.

[Instructor]: Amen. He is the Lamb. Good.

[Student 2]: He’s the way. Amen. He’s the promised one.

[Instructor]: He is the promised one.

[Instructor]: The I AM that I AM.

[Instructor]: Is he? God is the I AM who I AM.

[Student 2]: Is he prophecy and fulfillment? No, he’s fulfillment.

[Instructor]: He is also prophecy and fulfillment. Alpha and Omega. That’s what Jesus says about himself in the book of Revelation: “I am the Alpha and the Omega.”

There’s one thing that is missing here, and I feel we missed a big one. Remember, God is the Word.

[Student 2]: Jesus is also the light.

[Instructor]: Jesus is also the Word.

[Instructor]: Jesus is the Word too. Is it John 1:1-5? Not John 1:1-5, but very close.

[Instructor]: You’re missing like one letter or one number.

[Instructor]: 1 John 1:1-2.

[Instructor]: Did we see how Jesus is described here? Though his name is not directly mentioned, we know who John is talking about. What does he say? He says, “That which was from the beginning.” In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Then 1 John 1:1-2 states, “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at, and which our hands have touched. This we proclaim concerning what? The Word of life. The life appeared, and we have seen it and testify to it. And we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.”

God was with Jesus and has appeared to us. So God and Jesus are together.

[Student 2]: So they’re technically like one.

[Instructor]: Yes. Didn’t Jesus say that? “I and the Father are one.” Where did he say that? John 10:30.

Now, some will say, “Oh, instructor, game over, God and Jesus are the same.” But if you know the open Word and understand figurative language, you realize that is an oversimplification to the point of being wrong. Yes.

Because Jesus and God are one, but their relationship is like that of a man and a woman who decide to do what?

[Student 1]: Marry.

[Instructor]: Marry. And they become one flesh. The two together as one, working with the same mind, the same heart, the same desires, the same will.

So, in all intents and purposes, they are one in every way. There are so many verses we can use to discuss this. We could spend the rest of the Q&A discussing all of these deep topics.

So let’s go to John 14 and look at this relationship a little more closely. John 14:8-11.

We will first read what Jesus says to Philip, who asked to see the Father.

[Instructor]: Pay attention to the language Jesus uses here, because it’s crucial for understanding their relationship. What did Jesus say? Did he say, John 14:10, “Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me”? Is that what he said?

No. What did he say?

[Student 3]: He said the Father is in me.

[Instructor]: Exactly. Why use the term “in” if they are one and the same being? And why speak verse 28 if they are one and the same being?

Let’s read John 14:28.

[Instructor]: Can someone be greater than himself? No. Logically, that doesn’t make sense. “I am greater than myself.” No. Jesus is the Son. God is the Father. That’s the logic God designed.

Let me ask you, did I say it right? Are you your father? No. Wait, you’re telling me that you are not your father?

[Student 4]: No.

[Instructor]: Aren’t you born from his seed? Yes. So you’re not your father. You and your father aren’t the same person? No. Who designed it that way?

God. So then why would God break his own logic that he created with himself? That doesn’t make sense.

What’s more logical is that Jesus is the Son of God, which he claims about himself many times throughout the New Testament: “I am the Son of God.” “I am the Son of God.” “I am the Son of God.” But I only speak the words I hear from God. My words are his words.

So ultimately, what is the distinction? The will is the same. The words are the same. The mission is the same.

So it is not to dethrone Jesus to say this, which some people might feel, and some of you might be feeling now, but it is to show Jesus where he actually is. Where is Jesus right now?

[Student 2]: In heaven.

[Instructor]: Where in heaven?

[Student 2]: Preparing a place for us.

[Instructor]: Amen. But where specifically is he standing in the place he prepared?

[Student 1]: At the right hand of God.

[Instructor]: At the right hand of God. If Jesus and God were the same entity, why wouldn’t Jesus just merge back with God? Why would Jesus stand next to himself?

One of the biggest weeds. This weed was not something taught by the original Christians. This idea formed around the year 300 at the council of those who were trying to canonize the Bible.

So it was not something taught by the disciples, and it wasn’t taught by Jesus either. The logic of the Trinity—I’ve avoided saying that word until now—came much later after the disciples. But it became a weed that took deep roots in many Christians, and it’s very painful to uproot. However, once you realize where Jesus is, it becomes less painful, and then you celebrate.

So where is Jesus? As we saw in Acts 7:55, it’s one of the places that mentions he is at the right hand of God. It’s what Stephen says right before he is stoned: “I see the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.” So Jesus’s position is at God’s right hand.

The second in command. The only one greater than Jesus is God himself.

[Student 2]: What was that? Would that make New John third since he is the promised pastor of Jesus?

[Instructor]: Oh, good question. Very good question. Now we’re understanding a little bit deeper. But think about it like this. Let’s first focus on Jesus before we talk about the promised pastor of our time.

Let’s go to Philippians 2:6-11 and see how the Apostle Paul describes Jesus. It’s really quite beautiful.

So let’s break down what the Apostle Paul said here. In Philippians 2:6, “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.”

But what does “nature” mean?

[Student 6]: Right. God’s form. So his seed.

[Instructor]: Ah, there it is. There’s the magic word. “Nature” means seed.

Seed. I am in very nature my dad.

Hey, powerful voice. I’m in very nature my dad. If you see me, you see my dad—twins. His face is a little rounder than mine, so I’m working on that. But I’m in very nature my dad. Though we are not the same entity, I was born of his physical seed.

The same applies to Jesus and God. And look at how Paul describes it in Philippians 2:7. “But made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”

Why? Who tried to seek equality with God?

[Student 1]: Satan.

[Instructor]: Satan. Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:11-19.

Not even Jesus seeks equality with God. Because God is one. And no one is above him. And no one can be above him.

1 Corinthians 15:26-27 says it beautifully. I’ll just summarize for the sake of time because we’ve seen a lot of verses.

It says, “The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. God’s desire is to be all in all once again.

So he established his son, Jesus, and exalted him with the name above every other name except for his. So everything is under Jesus. So don’t be lamenting for Jesus. He’s number two, and everything is under him. Everything is under him.

This is why we pray to Jesus. This is why we give Jesus the glory. Because heaven gives Jesus the glory too, right? Revelation 5:6-7. He’s at the right hand of God.

So this is the correct understanding. This understanding doesn’t create contradictions when you look at the Bible. There are many other verses, but I’ll pause here because I want to ensure everyone understands what we’ve just covered. Is everyone with me?

Did I lose anybody?

[Student 2]: No.

[Instructor]: Did we understand who Jesus is a little bit more?

I don’t hear anybody else. Yes. Are you sure?

[Student 2]: Yes.

[Instructor]: Okay. Absolutely. If you have more questions, we can definitely talk about it more. There are more verses I could have shown: Matthew 28:19-20, Isaiah 9:6.

We looked at John 14 and 1 Corinthians 15. There are many passages we could have read here, but I think these were the most important to share regarding the relationship between God and Jesus. The things they share include being the Word.

Both are the Word because Jesus is born of God. He was not born of man’s seed, but born directly of God’s seed.

Okay. Maybe one more question, but pick one that has a quick answer.

So you have to think about God’s position. Remember what we talked about before. We looked at the state that God is in compared to us, right? What kind of light is God in?

[Student 1]: Unapproachable.

[Instructor]: An unapproachable light. What God has done in the Bible is establish proxies that we can look to who represent or speak on God’s behalf until the time when God’s light is approachable again, when revelation is fulfilled.

God’s greatest proxy was his son, who was born of him, who was with him in the beginning, and is with him now. God wanted us to have someone we can see, touch, hug, cry with, read his words, and listen to him because his words are God’s words. Jesus was God’s extension to us because of his love for us until the point where he can fully return to us.

That’s why God needed Jesus and every other person he used in the Bible. New John is a proxy of Jesus. That’s right.

Until Jesus is fully here, you can’t go to God directly. You have to go through a proxy. And it has always been the case. Right? If you were an Israelite escaping from Egypt, you couldn’t just walk up to Mount Sinai and talk to God directly.

It would not end well for you. You had to go through Moses. And Moses went to God.

[Student 2]: So would, since God is first in command, and Jesus isn’t second in command in the spiritual world, would that make New John the first in command on the physical earth?

[Instructor]: He is the one that God, Jesus, and all of heaven are on, right? Revelation 3:12. So his words are very important.

They carry a lot of weight because he only speaks what he hears. He is very strict about not speaking about things he has not heard, which is quite encouraging for someone who is seeking the truth. Very good.

QUESTION

During the lockdown, people went crazy. In my industry, people started getting laid off, which created fear. It was a wild time. And you mentioned that COVID was like the great tribulation.

Why does it affect everybody? It’s not like God is protecting people. Why does it have to affect people from Zion?

ANSWER

Think about it this way: God is always separating the wheat from the chaff. This process doesn’t stop once someone enters the kingdom. In fact, it continues even for people in the kingdom. As promised, the sheep and the goats are gathered together and then separated.

It’s like the harvest process. A farmer harvests as much wheat as possible. To separate the wheat with seeds from the wheat without, they throw it up in the air. The wheat falls straight down, but the chaff blows away in the wind.

This process continues because God is looking for the wise ones, the sheep. Remember Matthew 22: “Many are called, but few are chosen.” It’s not because God predetermined who would be chosen. God looks at people’s hearts, actions, and words to determine if they’re genuine.

[Student 1]
But only God knows. How can humans know?

[Instructor]
Humans often don’t know, but you can get a sense because people’s real intentions eventually show through their actions. God, Jesus, and the angels determine whether someone will stay. Often, a person will decide to leave, thinking it was their own choice. God tends to let people be the way they insist on being, which is actually quite scary.

QUESTION

You mentioned that Babylon is Satan’s battleground, right? Are people in Zion going to be the most attacked by Satan and his minions? Is that why you’re saying people have to be sealed constantly and persevere until the end? Because this is where Satan will focus all his forces?

ANSWER

Yes, that’s correct. Let me explain it this way: There are two realms – Babylon, which is the field, and Zion, which is the barn or mountain. Everyone starts in Babylon; no one starts in Zion. People are taken from the field (Babylon) and brought into the barn (Zion).

First, there’s a sifting in the field to find the wheat. Not everyone is wheat; some are weeds. Weeds are never brought in and remain in the field to be burned. Of the wheat brought in, some will have seeds, and some will be chaff (without seeds). The chaff is blown away, representing those who initially had the seed but lost it due to various reasons. Unfortunately, this happens often.

[Student 1]
So it doesn’t matter if you’re inside or outside; people can still leave. Satan will attack no matter where you are. You mentioned something about seven people that flee seven ways. Can you explain that?

What does that mean?

[Instructor]
In Deuteronomy 28, there are blessings and curses. The first 14 verses are about blessings, and the remaining verses (15-68) are about curses. One of the blessings states that your enemies will come at you in one direction but flee in seven.

[Student 1]
What does that mean?

[Instructor]
It means that if you keep the covenant, your enemies will be defeated. But if you don’t keep the covenant, you will attack your enemies in one way, be defeated, and flee in seven ways. This represents a state of defeat.

[Student 1]
But what does “flee in seven ways” mean?

[Instructor]
It means you’ll be scattered and no longer united. A group that is not united has failed and been destroyed.

[Student 1]
Like Babel?

[Instructor]
Yes, like the Tower of Babel. They were scattered because when they were united, they became powerful, arrogant, and prideful. So God scattered them, making them powerless.

In Revelation chapter 6, the seven stars were once united. But by the end of Revelation 6, they scattered in seven ways because they broke the covenant and didn’t repent.

In Revelation chapters 12, 16, 17, and 18, it was the beast with seven heads and ten horns that scattered when defeated. Revelation 17:18 talks about how they were scattered at that point.

QUESTION

So, scattered means not united, defeated, and lost. You mentioned the seven stars were united before. What would have happened if they had kept their covenant with Jesus without betraying him? What about New John becoming a backup plan?

ANSWER

Good question. Heaven’s hope was that when the promised one came, he would be accepted. God had promised a prophet would come from among them, as mentioned in Deuteronomy chapter 18. This was during the same period they received the covenant with God. The conclusion of their covenant was accepting Jesus. God’s hope was that people would keep the covenant until Jesus came and welcome him with open arms. However, they neither kept the covenant nor accepted Jesus. God knew this would happen.

QUESTION

Jesus was well-prophesied by many prophets. The traditions and festivals they kept were like shadows of Jesus’ reality. As you mentioned, this foreshadowing and typology is being used to project what will happen in the second coming, right?

Can you remind me, besides the “wise and faithful servants,” what other term is used in scripture to describe the new John that you often mention? Why is this mentioned?

You’re saying everything is hidden in parables, right? That’s why we need to understand the figurative connections between the first and second coming to recognize the patterns in the second coming. You also mentioned how people in the first century would know about the new John. Does that mean something else is promised to come later? And you said it’s been lost in translation, correct?

ANSWER

When it comes to prophecy, the prophets often don’t know the full content. It’s not meant for them to know.

[Student 1]
But you said everything had to be written because…

[Instructor]
Everything has to be recorded because it’s God who really writes, not the prophet. The prophet is only relaying what he heard and saw, which is often figurative in nature. Let’s look at Daniel 12:5-10, for example.

So Daniel was told to go on his way. He wasn’t given a full explanation. He saw many things, and his job wasn’t to understand, was it? What was his job?

[Student 1]
To record. That’s why I was asking what exactly was recorded specifically about the new John, instead of using typology.

[Instructor]
That’s the thing. It’s not obvious.

[Student 1]
That’s why it’s not obvious. I want to know more specifically how Christians in the first century would know there’s a promised person who will eventually come to fulfill complete salvation. But it doesn’t have to be so important that they would have known about it then, right?

[Instructor]
Jesus made two important promises. First, He said that whoever accepts anyone He sends, accepts Him. Second, He promised to send a counselor who would teach everything He had explained to His disciples. So, Jesus clearly promised that someone was coming.

ANSWER

Let me list some relevant verses:
– John 13:20: “Anyone who accepts anyone I send accepts me.”
– John 14:16: Jesus promised to send the Spirit of truth, the counselor.
– Revelation 11:1-4: Jesus said, “I will send my two witnesses.”
– Revelation 22:16: Jesus says He will send His angel/messenger to the churches.

Jesus repeatedly promises to send someone or multiple people.

[Student 1]
So, identifying New John is based on clues, not a direct reference to a person. It’s similar to how people expected a Messiah in Moses’ time and Jesus’ time. However, there isn’t an expectation of a Messiah for the second coming, and it’s all based on clues.

[Instructor]
That’s right. Jesus was also obscure. People knew someone was coming, but God had placed clues about the Messiah in prophecies. For example, Isaiah 28:16 mentions a stone on Zion. It wasn’t until Jesus came that we realized the stone referred to a person, and that person was Jesus. Similarly, the prophecy about a light shining in Galilee was vague until Jesus appeared.

When we read about “one who overcomes,” “faithful and wise servant,” or “angel/messenger” in Revelation, we might not connect these references to the same person without understanding the concept of New John. You could read the Bible many times without making this connection. It only becomes clear through revelation, which has always been the case with prophecies.

[Student 1]
“At one point in my life, I questioned God because of many betrayals I experienced. Things didn’t make sense to me, and I began questioning Christianity.

I noticed that many people just follow traditions without understanding what they believe. They hear the same messages every year, live the same life, and pretend to be Christians, especially in countries that are predominantly Christian.

I don’t understand when people share their testimonies. What’s the difference between their old life and new life if they’ve always been Christian? How do they distinguish between their past and present, or recognize transformation?

This is particularly true for those raised in Christian households, like pastor’s kids. Parents often try to protect their children from going astray. So, if you’re raised as a Christian, how do you understand the need for a Savior? How do you distinguish between having Jesus and not having Him, or between receiving salvation and not having it, when you’ve heard the same message repeatedly?

For someone like me, who wasn’t always Christian, I know the difference. I became a Christian by choice and saw a transformation in my life compared to before. My way of thinking changed, and I can clearly see the difference between my old self and who I am now.

I no longer think the same way I did before, and my life is different now. I can see this as a testimony of real change and transformation. I don’t live my old life anymore, but I don’t see that in many Christians’ testimonies. Their stories often seem flat.

Many powerful testimonies involve people dealing with death, sinfulness, addiction, and other struggles. Jesus came to seek sinners, not those who are already healthy.

So, my question is: Since you were raised as a Christian and now you’ve heard a new perspective, how do you see the difference? Isn’t it still the same territory or field?”

[Instructor]
Yes, but it’s not the same. I would say that encountering the open word was similar to how you felt when you first became a Christian. The experiences were very similar.

It’s almost like I encountered faith for the first time. That’s how I would describe my realization when I studied. I was like, “Yeah.”

[Student 1]
Before studying the open word, how was your biblical knowledge? Were you well-grounded in scripture before you began to study the open word?

[Instructor]
I knew the stories, but I didn’t understand their significance. I would definitely describe my pre-study faith life as very habitual and casual. I was one of the people you were talking about.

That was me. You know, I’ve been a Christian my whole life, but my faith wasn’t in-depth.

There are so many things in the Bible that I learned about for the first time after I studied, even though I’ve been a Christian my whole life.

I barely touched Revelation. I only passed it by. I never really read it.

If I had read it, it was so long ago. If you had asked me in 2018 what the book of Revelation was about, I wouldn’t have been able to tell you.

[Student 1]
Had you finished reading the whole Bible by then?

[Instructor]
By then, I had not read the Bible from front to back. I know it’s crazy, but it’s very common.

[Student 1]
Yeah, it’s very common. I never knew that most people haven’t read the Bible, even Christians. Most people don’t.

To my surprise, I have read the Bible more than 30 times. Well, maybe not 30 times, but at least more than 10 or 15 times. Every time I read it, it’s like something new, even if you don’t understand it the first time, right?

Because it’s based on your spiritual life and the changes you’re going through, you understand a little better each time. At least it’s something you keep as a routine, reading the Bible every day as a habit, right?

But I just never knew. I thought, “Oh, you’re a Christian, so everybody has read the Bible.” And then suddenly people said, “Oh, no. Why are you so arrogant that you said you read the Bible?”

Why are they so angry at me for reading the whole Bible? It’s because they haven’t.

[Instructor]
Yeah.

[Student 1]
I asked them, “Why are you so angry at me for reading the Bible when you didn’t?” It made me feel arrogant because I had finished reading the Bible, as not everyone has done that. Then I realized, “Wow, I hope I am not the only one. It seems like not many people have read it.”

Since then, I thought, “Okay, maybe people are just pretending to be Christian and don’t actually read their own Bible.” That’s why I want to know what differences you’ve encountered before and after experiencing the Word. You could tell there was a transformation, right?

[Instructor]
Yes, there were quite a few transformations, honestly. One of them was that I used to be a really bad reader in general. And I actually missed learning phonics. Interestingly, numbers made sense to me. I was very much math-oriented. Numbers always clicked.

[Student 1]
Oh, I’m not good with numbers or math classes.

[Instructor]
Yeah, we’re opposites. Numbers made sense to me, but words, not so much.

[Student 1]
I have a difficult time memorizing numbers. When I’m studying for tests, there are a lot of verses I have to memorize. That takes the most time. I spend most of my time just memorizing numbers.

[Instructor]
Really? That’s fascinating.

[Instructor]
Numbers weren’t difficult for me. The challenge was staying organized. Now, I’m a much better reader because I read more than I used to. I’m preparing lessons and reading personally, which has created a general study mentality that extends to other areas of life.

Many saints who return to school find it easier after studying the Word because they’re in a study mindset again. Spiritually, I can study the Word more effectively now. Things stand out when I read, and I notice connections between different chapters and verses. Developing a fondness for the scriptures is one of the biggest changes in my life.

I see things differently now. I don’t view life in terms of a normal 70-80 year lifespan, which is why people rush to accomplish things before they die. I realize I’m blessed to live in a time when that won’t be the case for those in God’s chosen place. So why rush? My time horizon is much longer, allowing me to commit time to things I wouldn’t have before. If I hadn’t encountered the Word, I might have become a licensed architect or pursued other career paths.

[Student 1]
That makes sense because we’re hoping for Jesus’ return. Now we know the location – Mount Zion – and everything we’ve been waiting for is there. It’s exciting to live in a time when everything is coming together, and we want to see God and Jesus.

You mentioned that faith is now more about understanding rather than blind belief. We can say, “This is the place, and everything is coming together.” It’s an exciting time.

I see this as a way of discipline and structure to keep God first, which people don’t do in Babylon. My group back home has a similar structure. We encourage memorizing the Word and evangelizing. We gather in houses for discipleship and Bible study. My teacher passes on Bible study notes, and I evangelize and make disciples, passing on what I’ve learned.

Our church doesn’t have a name, and it’s unconventional. I became a Christian at 12, and it was exciting. I enjoyed playing with verses, creating two volumes of concodence with categorized verses. I like finding answers through the verses and seeing how they connect.

So, when you talk about being more disciplined in studying the Word, that’s the transformation and change you mentioned. You’re more focused on studying now.

Yes, that’s one of my goals. The other is trusting God more. I’m putting many things on hold for this work, and I hope it continues to shape me into the person God wants me to be. My goal is to become one of the 144,000 priests.

[Student 1]
So that’s your goal?

[Instructor]
Yes, that’s what I’m striving for. I know the blessings they’ll have. When this number is revealed, people will want to meet them. They’ll have the task of leading thousands of people to God. It would be amazing to be trusted with that level of responsibility.

[Student 1]
But how do you know you’re being chosen among others?

[Instructor]
We do our best, and it’s up to God to decide. It’s frustrating, but that’s how it is.

[Student 1]
You mentioned people have to go through tests, right? Do they keep records of your scores to determine how “sealed” you are? Is that how the examination system works?

[Instructor]
The exam is more about effort. It’s about putting in the work to become sealed. God can use anyone, but He prefers someone who is sharp and willing to put in the effort to become capable. No one starts perfect, but God can mold people into who He wants them to be.

For example, Moses was nervous, had a speech impediment, and had even murdered someone. God transformed him in his 80s into someone capable of leading hundreds of thousands of people. The disciples were fishermen, and Jesus molded them into people who could start a new faith and die for it.

My desire is for God to mold me like He did with the apostle Paul, from who he was in John chapter 1 to who he became by John chapter 21. I want to be worthy of the responsibility of leading people to God, which is a heavy responsibility.

[Student 1]
Did you never have the desire to serve God before learning about this?

[Instructor]
Before studying the open word, I wanted God to use me. For example, if I were to be an engineer, I wanted God to use me to be a great enginner and create amazing things.

[Student 1]
But why did you believe in Jesus and God at that time? Was it because you always had?

[Instructor]
Yes, that’s what it was. But there’s a clear difference between who I was then and who I am now. The Nate in 2018 and early 2019 is very different from the Nate today. Back then, I believed in Jesus because I always had, but I didn’t really know God or Jesus that well.

[Student 1]
Did God answer your prayers before to show you He was with you, or were you just assuming?

[Instructor]
The mindset in Babylon is doing what you’re told and meeting the basic requirements. You believe in Jesus, so you think you’re good. You might think good things that happen to you are from God. Your prayers are often self-centered, asking God to do things for you or bless you with things.

[Student 1]
It sounds more like a genie in a bottle or prosperity gospel.

[Instructor]
I didn’t believe in prosperity gospel, but I didn’t have a deep understanding of who God actually is. It’s like seeing God as a 5-year-old sees their parent versus how a 20-year-old sees their parent.

[Student 1]
So you never felt God talking to you before studying the open word?

[Instructor]
I always wondered if I was broken or if I did something wrong. I couldn’t hear God the way others claimed to, and it upset me. My dad is a Pentecostal pastor who always talked about hearing God. I grew up in that background with “Holy Ghost fire.”

[Student 1]
Speaking in tongues? That’s the fastest-growing denomination right now. It’s spreading rapidly.

[Instructor]
That was my background. I didn’t hear God like others claimed to. When I studied the open word, I realized that God speaks to everybody through the word. That’s how He communicates.

[Student 1]
When you studied the open word, what things shook you? Did you have any doubts?

[Instructor]
I certainly had doubts, but they were overridden by the word and by seeing reality make sense. Things like the reality of idols and the true nature of Babylon were huge revelations for me. I was deeply involved in my previous church, even had a girlfriend there. But I could see the truth about that place through the open word, and I realized it might not be where I needed to be. I left early in the parables level of the class.

ANSWER

For me, discernment was about finding where my desire for God’s word was kindled. It wasn’t at Babylon or the church I was attending. When I studied the open word, things started to make sense logically. I began to understand why God would say certain things and why prophecies were written in specific ways. When I looked at scripture through the lens of prophecy and fulfillment, I realized how often New Testament writers referred to the Old Testament to help people understand what was happening. Previously, I had overlooked these references; they were like invisible verses to me. But in 2018, when I studied the open word, those verses came alive, and I noticed them for the first time.

[Student 1]
Were you a student when you were studying the open word?

[Instructor]
No, I had graduated the previous year.

[Student 1]
So you didn’t have the pressure of homework and studies. You had a job, which made things easier for you.

[Instructor]
My only real pressure was my job. I was called at the perfect time because it would have been difficult if I was still in Atlanta living with my parents, who are pastors. It would have been very hard to study the open word and decide to leave my dad’s church while living with them. But by that point, I had already moved to […] City, so I was on my own and working a full-time job.

[Student 1]
You were an engineer, right?

[Instructor]
Yes, and I had finished school. I wanted to go to a local church, which I explained to my dad. He understood and allowed it. At that time, they weren’t doing Zoom services, but COVID changed that. They now do Zoom services more often, but I still don’t attend. My dad knows it’s because I’m very involved in my local community here. He’s actually seen me teach an early lesson, which we call “baby lessons.” I invited my parents to watch a seminar I was holding, and they said I did a very good job. They’ve given me space.

[Student 1]
So your dad’s still a Babylon pastor?

[Instructor]
Yes, unfortunately. I would like for him to study in the pastor seminar and learn about the open word. But he’s very busy running a business on the side, holding nightly prayer meetings, and attending pastors’ conferences. I’m still trying to reach out to my dad.

QUESTION

I asked you about discernment since you said we need to test everything, including the instructor and everything else. Not just once, but constantly. How would you, for instance, check and balance New John? Is New John perfect, or does he need to be checked too?

[Instructor]
Oh yes. New John constantly reminds us that he is a person who makes mistakes and changes. He’s not a static, perfect entity. Jesus was the only perfect being who existed in the flesh.

[Student 1]
But how would you check and balance him, especially when he says something about fulfillment? How would you know? As you said, God speaks to one person, New John, and then everybody has to follow his words. What if some of those fulfillments or commands he mentions are corrupted? How can people fact-check or ensure everything aligns with Scripture? How can we make sure he doesn’t go wicked, as mentioned in Matthew 24? He’s described as a wise and faithful servant but can also become wicked, right?

[Instructor]
Yes, that’s a good question. Matthew 24 mentions those whom God was using that became wicked. Verses 48 to 50, which come after the verses 45 to 47 that we often quote, talk about this.

The ultimate check on New John is what he says will be fulfilled. He almost exclusively talks about Revelation, which can be verified as it’s being fulfilled. He focuses on Revelation 18, 19, and 20 now, as those are the things left to be fulfilled. When these things are fulfilled, we’ll know he’s truthful.

He doesn’t make random prophecies unrelated to Scripture. Everything he reminds us about is already in the Scriptures. It’s incredible how he only talks about the Scriptures. We can verify whether what he said about Scripture fulfillment is true or not.

[Student 1]
How can we verify if someone’s claims of divine visions or relationships are genuine? Many people make such claims. How do we distinguish between truth and deception?

I’m asking about discernment. As a former team leader of a studio I used to work in, I know higher-ups sometimes withhold information to control panic or damage, especially during crises like COVID-19. How can we be sure information isn’t being concealed for similar reasons?

Is there a process for cross-examination or verification? It’s often difficult to determine who’s at fault or telling the truth when things are covered up. How do you discern in such situations?

Corruption happens everywhere, even in companies. Sometimes people feel forced to participate in corrupt practices. How do you handle these situations?

[Instructor]
I understand your question. It’s a good one.

At Mount Zion, we’re very open about everything. If someone is leaving or if corruption is discovered, it’s made known to everyone. We don’t cover things up to look good.

These issues can’t remain hidden. They’re dealt with openly.

[Student 1]
But is there a process for cross-examination?

[Instructor]
Corruption is a worldly issue that’s often allowed to continue. In Mount Zion, when such things happen, God removes those people. There are no cover-ups here. Everything is made known to everybody. If something happens, everyone is informed.

[Student 1]
But Satan can also work from within, right?

[Instructor]
Yes, Satan works through people. That’s what I’m saying. When that happens, God takes those people out. It doesn’t remain hidden. There are no cover-ups in Mount Zion. Everything is made known to everybody. If something happens, everyone is told.

[Student 1]
That’s not my question. My question is, how will you discern the truth? What’s your method to distinguish between falsehood and truth? Who’s telling the truth? Do you just accept it when everyone says something is true?

[Instructor]
My brother, think of it this way: If it’s truly a place of God, He will put mechanisms in place for the truth to be revealed. In such a place, it’s not up to each individual to determine if they’re being told the truth. The Spirit works to reveal if anything corrupt is happening. It’s not concealed.

This isn’t a worldly company. You can’t apply the same standards to spiritual matters as you do to worldly ones. The operation is different. In the Bible, even if corruption among God’s people was covered up for a time, it eventually gets exposed and removed. God wants us to be sheep-like believers who accept what they hear, not doubting everything.