The purpose of this Reddit post here is to have it translated into various languages.
Title: History of the Deity of Christ, the Trinity, and the Council of Nicaea
OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ):
In this document, I aim to demonstrate that the Deity of Jesus and the concept of the Trinity were not established by the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. Despite claims made by various groups, historical evidence from early church writings and documents suggest that these beliefs were already well-established within Christianity long before the Council.
This video from Inspiring Philosophy did a great job at explaining the context of the Council of Nicaea:
https://youtu.be/WSKBGdv07nQ?si=HzTLk4i2NTFwJtjx
This is in response to one of the claims from the following SCJ podcast:
https://youtu.be/aRb2JdnLU1U?si=HMCJJTUIzVh1v49f
And below are the many quotes from early church Fathers who affirmed the Deity of Christ and even used Trinitarian language.
1. The Deity of Jesus:
Early Church Fathers’ Beliefs:
The Deity of Jesus was not a novel concept introduced by the Council of Nicaea. As evidenced by the writings of early church figures like Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus of Lyons, the belief that Jesus is God was already firmly held within the Christian community before the Council.
To quote a few historic figures:
- Polycarp (AD 69-155) Disciple of John the Apostle:
- Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth…and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead. (Polycarp 12:2)
- Ignatius of Antioch (AD 50-117) Disciple of John the Apostle:
- There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.
- For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit. (Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, 18.2. Translation from Michael Holmes, Apostolic Fathers, 197)
- From that time forward every sorcery and every spell was dissolved, the ignorance of wickedness vanished away, the ancient kingdom was pulled down, when God appeared in the likeness of man unto _newness of_ everlasting _life;_ and that which had been perfected in the counsels of God began to take effect. Thence all things were perturbed, because the abolishing of death was taken in hand.
- Nothing visible is good. For our God Jesus Christ, being in the Father, is the more plainly visible. The Work is not of persuasiveness, but Christianity is a thing of might, whensoever it is hated by the world.
- I give glory to Jesus Christ the God who bestowed such wisdom upon you;
- Epistle of Barnabas (written c. 70–130)
- There is yet this also, my brethren; if the Lord endured to suffer for our souls, though He was Lord of the whole world, unto whom God said from the foundation of the world, Let us make man after our image and likeness, how then did He endure to suffer at the hand of men?
- Justin Martyr (AD 100-165)
- Permit me first to recount the prophecies, which I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts. (Chapter 36)
- “And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom, (Chapter 128)
- Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Jesus] is witnessed to by Him [the Father] who established these things, as deserving to be worshiped, as God and as Christ. Chapter 63
- Tatian the Assyrian (110–172):
- We do not act as fools, O Greeks, nor utter idle tales when we announce that God was born in the form of man.
- Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202):
- He received testimony from all that He was very man, and that He was very God, from the Father, from the Spirit, from angels, from the creation itself, from men, from apostate spirits and demons.
- “For I have shown from the Scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the Scriptures would not have testified to these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man. . . . He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, coming on the clouds as the Judge of all men; — all these things did the Scriptures prophesy of Him.”
- Melito of Sardis (d. c. 180)
- “He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up; He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was born up on a tree; the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body – God put to death! . . . [I]n order that He might not be seen, the luminaries turned away, and the day became darkened—because they slew God, who hung naked on the tree. . . . This is He who made the heaven and the earth, and in the beginning, together with the Father, fashioned man; who was announced by means of the law and the prophets; who put on a bodily form in the Virgin; who was hanged upon the tree; who was buried in the earth; who rose from the place of the dead, and ascended to the height of heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father.”
- Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215)
- This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man…
It is apparent that the idea that the Deity of Jesus was established at the Council of Nicaea is not accurate based on these early writings. The belief in Jesus’ Divinity was already part of Christian orthodoxy prior to the Council.
2. Development of the Trinity:
The concept of the Trinity was present in the early church, even before the Council of Nicaea. While the term “Trinity” itself may not have been coined until later, the idea of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being distinct yet unified was evident in early Christian writings.
https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/11/02/were-the-early-church-fathers-trinitarians
https://answeringislam.net/Shamoun/origens_christology.htm
- The Triad formula and terminology like “Father,” “Son,” and “Spirit” were used to describe the relationship.
- Early church fathers like Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Justin Martyr acknowledged the Trinitarian nature of God.
- Saint Dionysius (Direct Disciple of Saint Paul, Acts 17:34) (1st Century D):
- We speak of the All-Transcendent Godhead as a Unity and Trinity”
- “This is why the revelation of the Holy Trinity, which is the summit of cataphatic theology, belongs also to apophatic theology, for ‘if we learn from the Scriptures that the Father is the source of divinity, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the divine progeny, the divine seeds, so to say, and flowers and lights that transcend being, we can neither say nor understand what that is.”
- This aspect of distinctness is manifested in the fact that the Emanation of Absolute Life, etc., is distinct from the Persons of the Trinity, the aspect of identity is manifested in the fact that They possess Absolute Life antecedently to the act of Emanation.
- Thaddeus, one of the 70 Disciples in Matthew, and a disciple of Thomas:
- Adored, glorified, lauded, celebrated, exalted, and blessed in heaven and on earth, be the adorable and glorious name of Thine ever-glorious Trinity, O Lord of all.
- Athenagoras
- …they (the Christians) know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity.
- https://www.copticchurch.net/patrology/schoolofalex/III-Athenagoras-after/chapter4.html#:~:text=Athenagoras%20holds%20that%20the%20Logos,out%20the%20meaning%20of%20Col.
- Athenagoras is one of the first Christians to attempt to explain the Trinity in a philosophical way, and already we can see how the 3 persons are co-eternal, co-equal, and etc.
- …they (the Christians) know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity.
- Ignatius
- ye are stones of a temple, which were prepared beforehand for a building of God the Father, being hoisted up to the heights through the engine of Jesus Christ, which is the Cross, and using for a rope the Holy Spirit
- “Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever you do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end”
- Irenaeus
- And for this reason the baptism of our regeneration proceeds through these three points: God the Father bestowing on us regeneration through His Son by the Holy Spirit.
- Justin Martyr
- “I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning,[who was] a certain rational power[proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 61).
- Clement of Alexandria (190 AD)
- I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father.
- Tertullian (200 AD)
- Still, in these few quotations the distinction of Persons in the Trinity is clearly set forth. For there is the Spirit Himself who speaks, and the Father to whom He speaks, and the Son of whom He speaks.
And many, many more. To see more examples of the Trinity before the Council of Nicaea, visit:
The concept of the Trinity was present in the early church, even before the Council of Nicaea. While the term “Trinity” itself may not have been coined until later, the idea of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being distinct yet unified was evident in early Christian writings.
- The Triad formula and terminology like “Father,” “Son,” and “Spirit” were used to describe the relationship.
- Early church fathers like Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Justin Martyr acknowledged the Trinitarian nature of God.
3. Purpose of the Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea did not establish the Trinity but rather sought to clarify the understanding of Jesus’ divinity in light of his humanity. It addressed the question of how Jesus’ divinity should be comprehended, as the belief in his Deity was already prevalent.
The Council of Nicaea was not convened to establish the Deity of Jesus or the Trinity but to address the Arian controversy. The majority of Christians already held the belief in Jesus’ divinity, and the Council aimed to clarify the orthodox position.
- Arius propagated the idea that Jesus was a lesser god, not fully divine, leading to a debate among Christians.
- The Council aimed to reaffirm the orthodox view of Jesus’ divinity against the Arian viewpoint.
- Only two bishops at the Council supported Arius, while the majority upheld the orthodox understanding of Jesus’ nature.
Contrary to claims made by certain groups, the Council of Nicaea did not establish the Deity of Jesus or the Trinity. Early church writings and documents demonstrate that these beliefs were firmly rooted in Christian tradition long before the Council. The Council’s purpose was to address the Arian controversy and reaffirm the already established orthodox view of Jesus’ divinity.
In this section, we’ll explore Constantine’s stance on the Arian controversy and the events surrounding the Council of Nicaea. Contrary to the notion that Constantine used the Council for political power and enforced the Trinitarian viewpoint, historical evidence suggests that his aim was unity within his kingdom and Christianity, even at the cost of accommodating differing beliefs.
- Constantine’s perspective:
Constantine, a recent convert to Christianity, aimed for unity among his subjects and within the Christian community. He perceived the theological debates surrounding the nature of Christ as trivial in comparison to the broader goal of a united empire.
Despite his own conversion and the Council of Nicaea, Constantine did not resort to suppressing the Arian viewpoint using political power. He allowed Arius to live in exile, indicating a tolerance for differing beliefs within the Christian sphere.
In fact, towards the end of his life, he was baptized by an Arian Priest / Bishop, and the next 2 succeeding emperors of Rome were Arian.
- Parties involved in the Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea featured three main parties with differing perspectives on the nature of Christ: Arian, Orthodox, and Eusebian.
- Arian beliefs:
- Arian (Arius) believed that Jesus was a “divine” creature but not co-equal to the Father. His view presented Jesus as a lesser god, distinct from the Father and not eternal.
- Orthodox and Eusebian Agreement:
- The Orthodox and Eusebian parties already concurred on Jesus’ full divinity. Their disagreement stemmed from wording rather than core beliefs. The Eusebians were cautious about using the term “homoousios” due to its prior association with modalism, but both groups agreed on Jesus’ divine nature.
4. Outcome of the Council of Nicaea
Contrary to misconceptions, the Council did not invent the concept of the Trinity or make Jesus divine. Instead, it reconfirmed the already established orthodox belief through scriptural analysis.
After careful consideration of the Arian and Orthodox viewpoints, the Council voted, with only two members siding with Arius. The majority upheld the established orthodox view, emphasizing Jesus’ full divinity and co-equality with the Father.
To re-emphasize: Constantine did not use the Council to enforce the Trinitarian viewpoint. Instead, he demonstrated compassion toward the Arians. He allowed Arianism to persist and even flourish, with Arians gaining political influence.
The Arians eventually tried to use their political influence to stamp out the Trinitarian view; and while there were Christians who succumbed to the Arian perspective, Athanses didn’t. Instead, he kept fighting the Arians with scripture, and the Orthodox Church yet again re-confirmed their beliefs in the Trinity in the Council of Constantinople.
Conclusion:
- The Deity of Jesus was not established by the Council of Nicaea
- The Trinity was not established by the Council of Nicaea
- Constantine did not try to use the results of the Council of Nicaea to stamp out the Arians
- Both the Deity of Jesus and the Trinity were already considered Orthodox by the time the Council of Nicaea came about.
User Discussion and Responses
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
Thank you for posting.
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scj_love:
What is the evidence that he was a disciple of John?
What is the evidence that Ignatius is a disciple of John? Etc.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
Great question!
I’ll go ahead and provide a lengthy, detailed answer to this in another post.
Right now, I’m working on another document.
Nice to hear from you again!
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scj_love:
Yes, my research says that it is based on tradition.
Also, for the word “God” you know that theos in Greek is used—which can correspond to elohim in Hebrew. You have multiple elohim.
The church fathers contradict each other multiple times. The doctrine of the Trinity developed over the years. Different people contributed to formulating the concept. We can’t see that Jesus or the disciples were teaching the Trinity as we know it today.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) [Edited]:
*I’m glad that your research says that. I know of a few Christian apologists who would gladly review your research in detail. Would you like me to connect you to them?
Elohim can refer to multiple gods (as seen in Psalms 82), and the context of that reference is seen in John 10:35, where Jesus makes direct reference to it in a sarcastic tone.
So, are we now going to compare Jesus to the false gods of Psalms 82?
Then there’s Exodus 7:1, where Moses is “like” God to Pharaoh—but Moses neither accepts worship nor exhibits the unique attributes of God.
Anthony Rogers also addresses some of the points you may raise in his debate against Sean Griffin.
[Link: YouTube debate]
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scj_love:
I spoke with Sam Shamoun, which was a bad experience since he was rather aggressive. Besides Psalms 82, there are other cases where elohim is used.
Is this entity also God (the Most High) because it accepted worship?
For example, Joshua 5:14 – “No; but I am the commander of the army of the LORD. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face, worshiped, and said, “What does my lord say to his servant?”
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) [Edited]:
Not talking about Sam Shamoun—I am referring to others including Jonathan McLatchie. I do agree that Sam can be quite aggressive, though I enjoy his writings.
Also, isn’t Joshua 5:14 a theophany? You can read more about that here as well.
Edit: Another verse I expect would be 1 Chronicles 29:20, correct?
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scj_love [Edited]:
No, not 1 Chronicles 29:20 since you may bow for the king.
But Joshua 5:14 is a reach if you assert that it proves God in the flesh. It seems you were implying that those who accept worship are God (the Most High), which is why I provided that verse.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
Anyways, it’s late where I am. I’m sure you’ll have more witty responses, and I look forward to reading them.
Goodnight—I must say, I do miss our conversations.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
Well, considering that God has appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18–19, and how Jesus took on human nature to carry out the plan of salvation, it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch.
The God of Christianity has a history of directly interacting with His creation.
It’s peculiar that all the angels denied worship in Revelation 19:10 and that Peter denied reverence in Acts 10:25.
We can also see the same man giving the command in Joshua to remove his sandals—as Moses was instructed in Exodus 3:5—unless you do not believe that God was in the burning bush of Exodus 3.
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scj_love:
I believe it was an angel—the same way the angel with Jacob spoke on behalf of God, and Moses did on behalf of God (Exodus 7:17).
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
We can compare how Moses represented God in Exodus 7 (verses regarding the Angel of the LORD) with how the Bible presents the burning bush in Exodus 3.
↳ In Exodus 7:16–17, Moses tells Pharaoh: “The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, has sent me to say to you: Let my people go, so that they may worship me in the wilderness. But until now you have not listened. This is what the LORD says: With the staff in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood.” Notice how Moses carefully emphasizes that these are the words of the LORD, without placing himself in the divine role.
↳ By contrast, in Exodus 3, Moses encounters the burning bush. The Angel of the LORD appears, and God calls to him, “Moses! Moses!” Here, the divine presence speaks directly, and the identity shifts to God Himself. The Bible continues to refer to this figure as God and LORD. I’m going to stick with what the Bible says.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) – Continued:
We can view other theophanies or pre-incarnate appearances of Jesus. For example, Jude 1:4–6 states:
“For certain individuals, whose condemnation was written about long ago, have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the LORD once delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not maintain their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.”
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Blue_flipping_duck:
I don’t understand why this is posted in SJC… this is a theological discussion.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
Because in their podcast—and in many articles and blogs—they claimed that the Council of Nicaea was the origin of the Deity of Christ and the Trinity. I’m simply showing the error in that claim.
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Billybob-hillbilly & CatXodus:
Everyone who attended the Council of Nicaea already believed Jesus was a divine being or God. The main question was not whether Jesus was divine, but in what sense He is God—whether equal to the Father or subordinate to Him.
Fun Fact: Even though the Arians lost at the Council of Nicaea, their views remained popular. When Constantine died, his son became emperor with an Arian view of Christ, and for over two decades, power shifted to the Arians.
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Smart_Lawyer6103:
But Jesus Himself never said, “I am God.” The closest statement is “Jesus and God are one,” while He more often referred to Himself as the “Son of God.” (Just my two cents.)
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) [Edited]:
I will respond to that claim in a future post, alongside many common objections to the Deity of Christ.
For now, I’m showing that the claim that the Deity of Christ and the Trinity were both established at the Council of Nicaea is categorically false.
In the meantime, here’s an index of common objections against the Deity of Christ:
[Link: https://answeringislam.net/Shamoun/index.htm]
And here’s a counter to your claim:
[Link: https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/ally/did_jesus_claim1.html]
(Edit: For cached views, replace “https://” with “https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3A“.)
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Smart_Lawyer6103:
Still, that doesn’t explain my question. The article claims Jesus is God because He said “I Am” (referring to Exodus 3:14). But many other biblical figures—like Isaac, Jacob, the disciples, Paul, etc.—also use “I Am.” Does that mean they are God as well? That doesn’t make sense.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
First, context is key. There are times when people in the Bible use “I Am,” but in John 8, the context clearly shows that Jesus’ “I Am” is a direct reference to a divine title—especially when He claims to have known Abraham.
↳ In John 8:39–41, the Jews say, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus responds, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.” He then accuses them of seeking to kill Him—a man who spoke truth from God. This indicates that the Jews understood the gravity of His claim.
↳ Later, in John 8:57–59, when the Jews question how He could have seen Abraham given His youth, Jesus declares, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Their attempt to stone Him shows that they understood He was invoking the divine “I Am,” as used in Exodus 3:14.
↳ Thus, in this context, “I Am” is not a casual statement of existence but a claim to pre-existence and divine identity.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) – Continued:
If you wish, we can delve further into the Hebrew nuances of these Old Testament passages. But from the context of John 8, it is clear that Jesus was invoking the divine “I Am” and affirming His eternal, pre-existent nature.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator):
And just to preempt another argument from SCJ: some may claim that before the Council, the early church fathers were not Trinitarians. Here’s the counter:
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Were the early church fathers Trinitarians?
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Was Origen a Trinitarian?
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What about Justin Martyr and the Deity of Christ?
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Was the Holy Spirit worshiped as God?
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What about Tertullian and the Trinity?
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And Ignatius and the Deity of Jesus?
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Also, consider the early church’s interpretation of the Hebrew Bible’s use of plural pronouns for God.
I have also seen SCJ reference Bart Ehrman, who argues that the Bible was corrupted and changed for the Deity of Christ. Yet, it is unclear why they would use him as a resource while claiming the Bible is infallible.
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OP (QuestionsAboutSCJ, Moderator) – Finally:
Secondly, regarding Dr. Dan Wallace and textual criticism:
Below is a debate between Bart Ehrman and Dan Wallace to determine whether the New Testament is reliable:
[Link: https://bible.org/article/jesus-%CE%B8%CE%B5%CF%8C%CF%82-god-textual-examination]
[Link: https://youtu.be/WRHjZCKRIu4?si=lH2NGD1p1ldmDRg-]
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