The purpose of this Reddit post here is to have it translated into various languages.
LittleBird50
Disproving Shincheonji (I left yesterday)
Testimony
Hello everyone,
I have been a member of Shincheonji for about 3.5 years and yesterday I left. The story of how I came to stop believing in Shincheonji is a bit long and complicated. The short version is that I started to have some doubts that couldn’t be properly answered by my leaders, and over the course of a year I poured my heart out trying to regain my faith in Shincheonji to no avail. I was a very devoted member. I was a GGN (evangelism supervisor) at one point and spent 10 hours at Temple doing feedback every day for a while, with any spare time spent either evangelising or sealing – I did the bare minimum for my University courses and part-time job. I would stay at Temple until 3am some days reading Lee Man-Hee’s books because we couldn’t take them out of T and I preferred to read in silence. I went to Australia during a peace trip and met Lee Man-Hee multiple times – he spoke to my group specifically twice and I saw him about a dozen other times. I formed close friendships with many other Shincheonji members and eventually moved into an SCJ flat. All this to say, I was about as devoted an SCJ member as you can be but even I struggled to look past the many glaring discrepancies.
It might be a bit surprising to learn I only just left if you’ve seen me in this sub for the past few months. Unfortunately, due to personal circumstances I didn’t feel it was appropriate to leave back in September when I stopped believing in Shincheonji. I tried to be as respectful as possible to the SCJ members in my life, I tried to avoid arguing about doctrine and attended meetings when I should to make their life a bit easier. But at the same time I was going through the motions of deconversion. I had already decided I didn’t believe in Shincheonji anymore, but I continued looking for evidence kind of as a way to reassure myself. As I did, it started to bother me how disconnected all the evidence was. At that time I felt like all the information was scattered throughout the internet, some of which need to be translated from Korean, and all of which needed to be individually found like some sort of scavenger hunt. I decided during the time I have to stay in Shincheonji I would compile as much of the evidence as I could into one coherent resource.
I researched psychology and read Robert Jay Lifton and Steven Hassan’s work. I found and translated sections of several of Lee Man-Hee’s old books (thank you to u/mybc7 for sending me some of these, your story also played a part in helping me leave so thank you for that too). I spent hours reading through Lee Man-Hee’s articles and books, this time with a critical perspective. And of course I found many valuable resources in this subreddit, in blog posts, and in youtube videos as well. I combined all of these into one document and tried to make it into a coherent argument.
Then I realised nobody wants to read a 45 page document, so I made some videos as well. Even though they’re quite long and not very well produced I hope they can help some people.
And that brings us to yesterday. Yesterday, I sent the document and videos to everyone in my branch and let them know that I was leaving Shincheonji. I didn’t do it to persecute them but to provide them with information. Some of them may not read it, and many of them may stay despite it, but as long as I did my best to provide them with the information that was withheld from me, I can sleep at night. I’ll put the body of the letter below because I think it summarises the reasons I’m leaving well:
There are many fundamental problems with the doctrine of Shincheonji that collectively prove it is not the word of God. It is not only small details that have changed. The reality of the beast of the earth in Rev 13 was changed from Lee Cho-Joo to Oh Pyeong-Ho. The fulfillment of Rev 7 was changed so that the great tribulation could fulfill before the 12,000 sealed in 12 tribes were filled. The number of wars in Revelation was changed from 2 to 3, and then back to 2. CHJN’s claim that he has established peace in Mindanao is a blatant lie. It is true that tiny details are not important, but these are not small details. These flaws expose the fundamental lie that Lee Man-Hee received the opened scroll from an angel and saw and heard the fulfillment of Revelation.
Another reason I am leaving is because, by the psychologist Robert Jay Lifton’s definition, Shincheonji is a cult. The reason this matters is that to be a cult the organisation must use thought reform and coercive persuasion during the process of indoctrination. This violates article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights – the right to freedom of thought. I found it shocking to learn how similar Shincheonji is to every other cult. If you are interested in hearing more about cults I would recommend reading Dr. Steven Hassan’s book ‘Combatting Cult Mind Control’ published in 1988 about his experience with the Moonies.
Another important thing to understand is that the story Shincheonji has told you about Lee Man-Hee’s life has been distorted to make his story about receiving the opened scroll from an angel more believable. In truth, he has a history of being involved in multiple cults both before and after his involvement with the Tabernacle Temple. He was a leader in Mr. Baek’s Recreation Church after leaving the Tabernacle Temple, where they called Mr Baek “Lord” and believed the world will end in 1980. Much of the Shincheonji doctrine is simply taken from the cults Lee Man-Hee was previously involved in.
But this really only scratches the surface when it comes to proving Shincheonji is not the kingdom of heaven. I have made a document, as well as some videos, that contain almost all the information that helped me to make the decision to leave Shincheonji. But this is not simply a document with my own ideas – I have used only CHJN’s own teaching to argue against the doctrine of Shincheonji. In it you will find a detailed explanation of how Shincheonji meets the 8 criteria for thought reform, excerpts from CHJN’s articles and books that disprove his own doctrine, as well as information about Lee Man-Hee’s life that will help you to understand the true origin of Shincheonji’s teachings.
Please, before you dismiss me as being deceived and foolish, watch the videos and discern for yourself.
I think that pretty much covers everything. I’m going to try and step away from this sub for a while to focus on reclaiming my life, but if you do have any questions feel free to DM me, I’ll try to keep checking those. Here is the document and videos:
- What it Took for me to Leave (document)
- The Psychology of Shincheonji (video)
- Problems in the Current Doctrine of Shincheonji (video)
- Problems in the Past Doctrine of Shincheonji (video)
- The Alternative to Shincheonji (video)
Comments Section
u/Glad_Cherry_488
Thank you for sharing your experience. God bless you. This cult is misleading some people in the Philippines.
u/yuulieen
Hoy descubrí la verdad. Me siento sola, confundida. Hace tiempo no asisto a la iglesia, me alejé de mi familia y amigos. No sé cómo salir de ahí. Tengo a una persona “evangelista”, que constantemente se comunica conmigo. Algún consejo?
↳ u/Gullible_Falcon_2311
Métete a TikTok y manda mensaje a la página FUEGODEDIOSTV. Ellos me están ayudando. Yo ya me salí de ahí también. Me puedes mandar mensaje.
u/whatsuptheskys
I am so proud of you!! This is so brave. God bless you <33
u/Agreeable-Elk5048
Thank you so much for sharing this information!! I’m deciding to leave SCJ after being part of the church for over 3 years now. The evidence was always there, and my heart always felt that something was off, but I couldn’t see it or accept it until now because of the manipulation and all of the things that make it a cult. Now I’m struggling to process what is true and what was lies that they told us to manipulate us. I’m curious, did anyone else who was part of SCJ hear them teach that part of the persecution against SCJ members was something called “coercive conversions” in South Korea? Basically, they told us that when family members found out that their loved one had joined SCJ, they would kidnap them and try to coerce a conversion back to their original denomination via torture, usually with the involvement of a pastor or priest. They even told us that at least one SCJ member had died from these coercive conversion practices. Now that I’m writing it out, it sounds completely absurd, but I’m curious if anyone knows if there is any evidence whatsoever of this kind of thing happening?
↳ u/foxyirish11
Please learn the word of God from Sam Shamounian on YouTube and read church fathers. One conversation with Sam, and EVERY EVERY SCJ member would leave!
↳ u/Aggravating_Good1367
Heard the same stories, but they told us 5 people died. And LMH refers to them as martyrs.
u/Ok_Dragonfruit_3355
Did they make it difficult for you to leave?
u/Objective-Year-5104
Thank you so much for sharing these valuable resources.
[deleted]
↳ u/omni-earth
Thanks for sharing.
u/Shot-Telephone-9000
Hello LittleBird!
Thank you for the info you shared here. Because of you, I finally gained the courage to leave today. I didn’t block them, but I had to uninstall all the messaging apps where I had contact with them. Honestly, this is really hard for me because I treated them almost like family. I really loved them. But I can no longer hide the doubts in my heart. There’s just too much evidence in this post. Even though they told me not to read things online, I couldn’t stop myself from seeking the truth. Surely, now that I’ve left, I’ll become their topic. I’ll become the reality of the “betrayer” in Zion.
This is especially hard for me since I just recently participated in the Passover, and they really trusted me. I also submitted the Book of Life registration form, but they said it was only temporary. It’s even harder for me because I’m not local. I spent almost all my time with them and even neglected myself. I got exhausted from everything, and now I don’t know how to start over again. It really feels like I’m back to zero </3
↳ u/RoleNo1887
I feel the same way. My life from 26 to 32 years old is a blur. When I left, I was already 32 and had to start my career all over again, feeling like I lost my worth in society. Over these years, I’ve grown apart from my family and friends; they’ve become strangers to me, and I don’t know how to open up to them anymore. Seeing people my age with happy families while I have nothing makes me incredibly sad. It’s truly devastating not knowing when I’ll be able to experience that everyday happiness like others do.
One positive thing is that I finally have a regular sleep schedule, and my health has improved significantly. I have started learning new skills again. Now I no longer spend all my time in endless group chats. When I make new friends, I no longer think about recruiting them. When talking to others, I express myself more sincerely rather than mechanically using fixed language patterns to obtain the desired information.
u/rob1969reddit
Do they call each other “Teacher”? Like “Teacher Phillip” or “Teacher Joe”? Etc?
↳ u/RoleNo1887
They don’t call each other Teacher; only LMH can be referred to as the Teacher, like Jesus.
↳ u/Shot-Telephone-9000
Hmm, but in Sacramento, we call our instructors “teachers”… and we should call LMH the “promised pastor” or “promised shepherd.”
↳ u/RoleNo1887
Wow, that’s a big difference! In my region, BB or CT students will be corrected if they refer to the instructor as “teacher.”
u/OilAutomatic1689
I don’t even think they go by their real names. All my teachers’ names seemed made up.
u/OilAutomatic1689
Yes, all the time.
u/Shot-Telephone-9000
I don’t know what to do now… I’m so lost 🙁
↳ u/Aggravating_Good1367
Hey buddy u/Shot-Telephone-9000,
Many on here and elsewhere have felt the same before, you are not alone.
There is a lot that was hidden from you in terms of SCJ’s development in doctrine years after their idea of fulfillment (so they can’t excuse it). Many of us were confident because a lot made sense in SCJ.
What helped me was seeing the reality of fulfillment that kept changing and didn’t add up. And then the real reality of LMH that doesn’t fit Revelation at all. We didn’t know their doctrine on parables was not unique because we were not exposed to much outside SCJ. And with tight censorship on what you should and shouldn’t read, of course, there would be no way for you to find out.
Don’t beat yourself up, you really didn’t know, and you most likely have a loving heart for God but was misled. It’s not your fault. Take your time and every question you have about doctrine, write it out, go back to the Bible and discover the answer for yourself. This won’t be too hard but if you need help just shout out. And there is so much information that has been laid out on Reddit and YouTube. And if you ask, people are willing to share more hard evidence.
Take as much time as you need, because this is all a big shock to the system I’m sure.
↳ u/Shot-Telephone-9000
I just left today.
↳ u/Shot-Telephone-9000
Hello, can I talk to you in private?
↳ u/Mindless-Security361
Are you ok?
u/ImpossibleStudy7624
The sessions are getting more frequent and longer the more we bring awareness. We need to go more for quality over quantity because they will multiply and use these awareness videos as food sources for the brainwashed individual in SCJ unfortunately.
tigibipbip
It’s literally a cult.
u/Mindless-Security361
https:YouTube.com/watch?v=iPZ-rYZRePc&t=4115s
u/CriticalGuarantee178
Would I be able to get your email? I am a current member who has been wrestling with some questions and feel like I have no one to ask who has experienced SCJ.
Would appreciate your perspective.
↳ u/Mindless-Security361
Thank you for all your efforts and research. So happy that God set you free🙏🏼
u/justlivinglife3814
I was there for 5 years, and honestly didn’t see red flags in the doctrine per se that caused me to leave, but it was the absurd and ridiculous helicopter parenting type of control that suffocated me. I mean going to the temple took about 3 hours in total by subway, then the sermons and the stupidly long hymns at the beginning and end adding 3 hours, then cell meetings and if there were major meetings after then 2 more hours. I was wasting 8 hours every Wednesday and Sunday. That is too much for a young adult in his early 20s who only wants to go to college, date, party, have a gf and normal friends, have part-time jobs or internships, and whatnot. And this is just one small example out of the dozens and dozens if not hundreds I can come up with. At the end, I just wanted to have a normal life regardless of whether I was going to end up in hell after dying. Later on, after some years passed, I came to see the ridiculousness of the teaching. Perhaps the control might not be so prevalent in further away branches like Atlanta or NY or other countries, but I was in HQ Gwacheon as a foreigner in the midst of the higher-ups and LMH (2014-2019). Please, people, don’t waste your valuable youth there.
u/Shot-Ad-1834
They also don’t allow you to feel good about doing anything other than SCJ.
u/Grandmas2Boys
And even then, it’s not enough. Got a test this week? Check. Oh, let’s add more studying to get that audio 10-minute testimony on the 5Ws and 1H by Friday. Don’t forget 5-6 hours on Sunday, and then Wednesday night service plus small group = another 4ish hours. Oh, and while you’re at it, jundo, jundo, jundo, every single day. And report EVERY.SINGLE.THING. every single day, BY 5 pm. Oh, on the freeway driving home? Too bad, your report is late. Time with family? Nope, not tonight. You’ve got to learn to teach, teach, teach (BB) as well as jundo, jundo, jundo. Forget the doctrine part, the schedule and removal of any kind of life outside their cult. They want every single part of you and then some. Glad to be done.
u/Shot-Ad-1834
How was going to the temple, and what was your experience?
↳ u/justlivinglife3814
It was certainly a different experience. Can’t say everything was good, and everything wasn’t certainly bad. Can’t elaborate too much in text. And certainly can’t summarize 5 years in text. It was a good experience overall. The good was good, and the bad was good because it taught me many things. I’m just glad I didn’t commit fully or spend 10-15 odd years there. I knew many of the top people in Gwacheon personally, and many of them have left at this point. They were people who had been in the church for at least a decade. Imagine leaving the world to focus on this church in your early 20s or something, and then leaving the church and going back to the world in your 40s or something. Reinventing yourself basically at that age is quite hard. And you can’t apply to many jobs, and they ask you what you did all those years. SCJ is very taboo in Korea. Very. I knew one lady who was getting famous as an opera singer in New York, threw that away, and joined SCJ. I knew a girl who had sacrificed her dream job as a flight attendant for SCJ. I knew a guy who had left his well-paid job as an architect for SCJ. I knew a girl who had quit her degree in Japan to join SCJ. I knew a girl who had been basically born into an SCJ family, and that’s all she knew, then they all ended up leaving. This girl’s mother was actually Kim Namhee’s assistant. After Kim Namhee left, this girl and her mother left. I have so many stories like that. I’m fortunate I didn’t quit anything while in SCJ. Overall, the temple is… hmm… very Korean… very different. Haha, the constant stares like you are an alien, poor translation oftentimes haha, spending 5 odd hours twice a week or sometimes even more commuting, sermons, endless meetings. A very repressed atmosphere too. Ughh. Anyways, much to say, but at this point, I have left all that behind. It seems to be a distant memory like I was never there. Then I look back, oh yeah, I was in a cult for 5 years. From time to time, I get that thought, and it makes me laugh. Can’t believe I went through all that.
u/IrhIh
Currently in my 6th month and kind of feel the same.
u/AbaloneFormer6544
I’m glad you left, may God help you walk in His true ways.
u/momof12345kand12gk
Is Combatting Mind Control or Freedom of Mind better to read? Or both? They are both by Steven Hassan. I sent you a chat.
u/Ecstatic-Routine-530
A sincere Letter to Dr. Jordan Peterson Regarding the Book of Revelation
u/sakr95
Come to Islam. Read the Qur’an once—what do you have to lose?
↳ u/TheDoggomancer
Ah yes, Islam. The religion that claims all its prophets are completely infallible—yet the Islamic version of Jesus’ death (which undermines His status as God, and funny enough, an infallible prophet) proposes that Jesus did not die but rather selected an apostle and transfigured them into a Jesus lookalike, while the real Jesus rose to Heaven. I guess, according to Muhammad, Jesus was wrong about His own death and resurrection.
↳ u/Opposite-Twist-7779
Oh gosh… And learn about a prophet who slept with an underage girl??
u/UrsiEG
As someone who has just started researching this cult because my daughter’s new sister-in-law has been doing Bible Study with them since last year, I really appreciate the time you have taken to put all this together. Takes a very brave person to do this—so hard when we are all looking for spiritual connections and these cults are just everywhere. I applaud your courage.❤️
u/poppieissmall
I also started Bible study with a group last year and I recently started suspecting it might be Shincheonji. I have been seeing similarities in the teachings from my Bible study and what people are posting on the internet. I wonder if your daughter’s SIL is in the same class as me. I am about to call out my instructors and tell them I am disappointed in the deceit, and I will block them and move on with my life. They haven’t started talking about Lee Man Hee, but a statement was made that caught my attention in class, and that’s when it began to unravel for me, and I started to search the internet for more info. They said not to talk about the teachings with others because we are not mature enough, and we don’t want to mislead or subtract or add to the word of God, which brings a curse. Which initially made sense, but then I thought, why the secrecy? They said, “Do not be surprised when we tell you who the overcomer is.” That caught me off guard. Why would I be surprised who the overcomer is? Why are they making it sound like it’s somebody they know? Suspicious. Also, the talk of figurative parables and the meanings and Old Testament fulfillment and prophecy, how they have you paired with a buddy. It is going to take a while to free my brain from what they have been teaching. It wasn’t suspicious until that slip of the tongue. It made so much sense until they made that statement, and it just set bells in my head.
↳ u/Tough_Surround5304
I don’t think it’s the same thing. I might be in the same Bible study; however, we haven’t started talking about Lee Man Hee like you said. The Bible has figurative language for a reason. Yes, they talk about secrecy, but they are still sharing it—it’s not like they select specific individuals to hear it😂. There are so many interpretations of the Bible, so why is it so hard to believe not to add and subtract from the Bible? Doesn’t it make sense that you should stay true to the word? If this Bible Study does start to become cult-like and be like Shincheonji, then I will come back and say I was wrong. However, so far, it is nothing like that. I have not heard anything about going to a temple, I have not heard anything about only 140k will be saved, and I have not paid anything financially. Yes, it is similar when it talks about fulfillment and prophecy, but that’s literally the Bible! You shouldn’t be adding and subtracting to God’s word. Now, if the Bible study told you that they were the only right way, then I would question it. Because even an individual should always question the teacher with the word.
↳ u/poppieissmall
Right after I posted this, the next lesson, they talked about 7 men. The lamp stands from Korea. Then they talked about how these men fell off, and a new man came. They did not mention the name yet, but I knew it was only a matter of time. The next lesson after that, they showed clips of YouTube messages of other preachers and did like a “they are wrong, we are right” sort of presentation.
↳ u/Mindless-Security361
Watch out for their brainwashing. They should be banned!!
↳ u/polyqlate
It’s a cult, sis. Time to get out of there, and if it truly was the truth, why would they not allow you to tell others and ask around about the class? I almost guarantee you the person replying to you is likely in the cult. It shouldn’t be a chore to go to a Bible study, so watch them guilt you into coming to the class often and taking more and more of your time. Get out while you can, homie, and get planted into a sound church where you go because you want to and learn from the true God of the Bible, not an old man’s interpretation ✝️ Even the best preachers in the world don’t say, “Only take my interpretation,” like Lee Man Hee / overcomer dude claims to do. Hope and trust you’ll get out and into a sound church!
u/Various_Top6446
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx9lTlzl5D8Does this sound familiar? If so, maybe time to walk away.
u/Money_Ad_4216
I just left today.
u/Slow_Evidence_1774
Hey, I was just wondering if you were going to the one in Melbourne. I have my Passover meeting tomorrow and have class tonight. I want to know what you said to get out and what you wish you did before leaving.
↳ u/poppieissmall
Omg! What did you say to them?
Difficult_Zombie7987
Please after writing your name in their book of life, how can you leave? How can you remove your name? I have been attending the class online for some months now.
Pink_Samwise_Gamgee
I asked them to remove all the information they had on me. The “Book of Life” in SCJ is just their church database. It is nothing special. It is like cancelling a membership with Netflix. They make it into something in the Bible as a scare tactic to stop you from leaving.
↳ polyqlate
Do you think they did it? I would like to do the same tbh. Don’t want those buttheads with my information lol.
poppieissmall
I think the Bible study I joined is also this cult. I am not very certain, but it just seems to match all what I am seeing on the internet. I am just going to tell them I am leaving and block all of them.
↳ polyqlate
Tbh can just block and get on with life. They weren’t polite when they deceived you into a study lol.
ljbrocks_
hooray!!!!
yourboy_the
Hi, your story is super interesting. Would you be keen to chat more about it in the DMs?
OkHouse8336
Please send an email address for me to contact you—I can’t say too much here, but some form of contact would be helpful.
DifferentAd1932
Thank you, my friend. Even if you read this or not, as I am leaving today and they are asking to meet.
↳ WastePin1782
I’m 3 months into the Bible study. Should I just ghost or tell them I am leaving first?
↳↳ AbaloneFormer6544
Leave.
↳↳ DifferentAd1932
The branch I was at in Sydney called me so many times when I didn’t reply after telling them I was leaving. I recommend just ghosting; it saves you more time.
↳↳↳ WastePin1782
Thank you so much. I also recommended the Bible study to others before doing my own research into it. Should I just tell them that it is a cult and that they shouldn’t proceed? Thank you so much for your reply.
Fearless_Chance2244
I am on my way out of SCJ, and while asking my higher-ups questions about doctrine changes, I was told that the 1985 book was written and edited by a man named Mr. Shin, who was one of the first antichrists and was greedy, taking matters into his own hands. He was an HQ worker, and when given the task of writing the 1985 revelation reality, he purposely changed things. The doctrine change I was specifically speaking of was Mr. Oh not always being the beast of the earth. Does anyone know of this claim’s validity? Thanks.
↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ
Ya, that’s a blatant lie lol. You can watch Shin’s interview here: [link]. He addresses SCJ’s allegations against him.
i-love-privacy
Can I copy the content for a website? To make sure this is well used and saved for educational reasons?
↳ i-love-privacy
WOW!!! These are the items I share as well with someone else who is leaving as well. You really put a lot of effort into this. I hope I may use some parts to get eyes open and return to the Bible. It must have given you a headache, all this work. Great Job and God bless you.
acidcxt
Hi, I’ve sent you a DM! 🙂
Bubbly-Toe-8544
Thank you for sharing this; it really opened my eyes and helped me make the decision to leave after a year. I was so eager in the beginning to learn God’s word; I had no idea then it would turn to be this—praising a man to be the one who overcomes and even making me question the Trinity. This experience has really made me sad to know how easy it was to be deceived by these teachers.
TreeSuper7303
I just want to thank you so much for this. You have no idea how amazing you and your work are.
Chaospillager2
This post, and good biblical videos on the Trinity (they denied the Trinity was true), was what pushed me to leave. I was blunt when I recognised the tactic they were using when I was trying to show them evidence of the true character of Jesus, that I was leaving. Then, I had to tell my “friend” to never contact me again, because after a 1.5-hour argument about if Jesus was God or not, he started to try to gaslight me about what they ACTUALLY taught, saying they actually AGREED with me! With the information in the documentation, I knew exactly what was happening. This is a fantastic resource, and I hope this never disappears.
Nervous_Yam77
Hi, I sent you a DM.
JK116Psalms
Thanks for sharing this. I have no idea if what I’m about to say is related to Shincheonji, but I was wondering if you are aware of whether or not Shincheonji uses stalking and other scare tactics to coerce future followers or prevent existing members from leaving the cult? I recently went to Korea and experienced coordinated stalking from various people that forced me to abruptly leave the country as I feared for my safety. The few cues/tips that I received from the stalkers who I stopped and spoke to all referenced God and “surrendering everything” to Him. Sorry if this has nothing to do with your post, but hoping you can point me in the right direction to what I may be dealing with. Thanks in advance!
↳ momof12345kand12gk
Well, that’s scary. So what about those who go to Korea for the graduation? Are bad things gonna happen to them?
Misskimpossibler
Bro… your story is exactly like mine. I wanna leave, but I wanna do it in a respectful manner. Could you tell me more about how you managed to leave? And I would like to connect with you. Let’s chat on Instagram, @misskimpossibler.
↳ AbaloneFormer6544
1 year later, I hope you left the cult.
↳↳ Misskimpossibler
I did! It was hard at that time since I saw these people as my friends. But now I realize everything there isn’t real.
Deleted User
Why on earth are you worried about leaving respectfully? These people exploit and harm. Leave, block, and don’t look back.
Amphoo
Why do you guys make a big deal about leaving? What are you leaving for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop discouraging believers who are interesting in the church of SCJ, if you want to join your own church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You left didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
↳ Familiar-Square-5004
I agree, I took the course and what others describe is not my experience. It’s interesting, want to do my own thing, want to be free to party and be 20 etc. Sounds like the world, things unbelievers say because Jesus says to deny oneself and surrender your life to Christ. Believe me I tried to argue but found, how can I argue with scriptures?
↳ Mindless-Security361
Unless you get persecuted by SCJ & its members prowling on people not to leave!!
Mav5781
Why are you sounding so angry and frustrated by their effort to let their own findings known about SCJ, are you part of the scaring tactics tricks used by members, much as they are free to make their choices they also free to publicize their opinion openly. Get over your high horses and let people be!!
Nice_Cut_657
Aren’t they allowed to make an informed decision? Instead of being a keyboard fighter for ddd maybe you can take just one moment to rethink. Did they give you time to think on your own at all, was it all true or Is it confirmation bias. It is true that soo many people left because of eventual finding out about the impossibility to EV non believer because you can’t actually prove anything without the confirmation bias.
Fresampla
Why do you guys make a big deal about joining SCJ bb, centre and church? What are you joining for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop encourage believers who are interesting in their own church, if you want to join your SCJ church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You joined didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
QuestionsAboutSCJ
Moderator Question: If your group has the highest truth, it should be able to withstand all scrutiny. Why is your church so afraid of criticism to the point that you view any form of it as “persecution”?
↳ Amphoo
Shincheonji is a church! They have many videos and even many websites. What is there to disprove? 😅 They want to make everything they do known, just because they don’t say “hey, we believe it’s the second coming and we take every word of the Bible extremely seriously”, do you really think your heart would have been open to that? God wants us all to change, it says this many places in the Bible such as Ephesians 4
↳ Grandmas2Boys
Because you have to take Bible study before you can walk through the doors. It is a secretive church, with cult-like beliefs/doctrine/actions. Everything is secret, and they try and pull you away from your spouse, your family, friends….anyone NOT in Scj. I had never heard of SCJ before the Bible study, but you can be darn sure I’ll never make that same mistake again. Out for 2 weeks, and can finally breathe again.
momof12345kand12gk
Family/Friend of SCJ Member Question: If they are the truth then why is everything a secret. Why wouldn’t you want everyone to know!
↳ Grandmas2Boys
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!
Rich-Ad-5871
Let’s be honest with ourselves for just a moment… If you haven’t fully passed over then you hardly have any basis to debate anything here because you don’t know the FULL truth of their lies. If you choose to continue, I pray in The Name of JESUS that your eyes are BLINDED to their deceit and your ears CLOSED to their lies. May THE WORD be the only lamp at your feet and the only light that shines upon the ONE and ONLY way to The Farther. If you are indeed a full member a good question to ask is… WHY are you here? If you have pledged to not seek information from the internet, and are disobediently doing so…then perhaps you are beginning to question things as thousands already have? No matter what… I PRAY you find THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE who is Jesus Christ…. In HIS NAME I ask and believe it has been done.
NoReply7597
Where is the pledge? Where are the multiple hard copies of the books that LMH created and he won’t let members take out the temple? Where are pictures of what the inside of the temple looks like?
marov92356
Your document (What it Took for me to Leave) should in my opinion be read by everyone in SCJ who:
- …believes the Word is ultimately what makes SCJ the place of truth, and that it should stand up to scrutiny.
- …values being a ‘mature’ believer that wants to make an informed decision about their faith, without just following blindly.
- …have tried asking questions about the doctrine but received no clear answer. Or,
- …have a feeling that something is ‘off’ about SCJ, LMH or the doctrine but can’t find the words to describe it exactly.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to make these excellent resources, and I’m sure they will help bring clarity to a lot of people who feel stuck.
OkCatch3055
This is truly amazing work and effort you have put into creating this post. It will not go unnoticed and will be used for many of those on a journey and still contemplating leaving SCJ. Thank you so much!
ziYan_accountant
Keep staying in SCJ, and you will become a zombie because SCJ strips away all independent thinking, turning people into mindless drones. SCJ works by causing our right (emotional) brain to overwhelm our left (analytical) one. The more you “think” with your right brain, the less thinking you do. Over time, emotions evoked by SCJ prevent you from objectively analyzing the subject at hand. You have a hard time telling what is true and what is not. Over time, peer pressure sets in, and it is hard to be the only enlightened one. This is how people get zombified.
↳ Realistic-Big-2705
My son is a zombie now. Need help?
[deleted]
This is fantastic! And I know that your journey and thought process over your 3.5 years will resonate with a lot of people (like me a year ago) who made a good-faith effort to believe SCJ doctrine but couldn’t in the face of all the evidence.
I was surprised to hear that you were still a current member while on this sub for the last while, but this also gives me great hope that there may be other SCJ members in your position who are curious and will bring an open mind to the facts and evidence. Amazing stuff, LittleBird50!
Mindless-Security361
Remarkable indeed – thank you for your efforts & so happy that God set you free🙏🏼
GlitteringIce9
So proud of you, LittleBird. What an epic journey you’ve had to get to this point. Indeed, take some time for yourself and reclaim your life 💜
lam-29
Thank you so much for making this resource! You are right that finding information about Shincheonji can be like a scavenger hunt, and members are already so tired and worn out that it needs to be as easy to find as possible. I have thought about this, but I did not have the energy to do what you have done!
I am sure that this doc and these videos will be used by many members to slowly open their eyes to all that has been hidden from them in SCJ. I hope they can all read/watch and at least question the narrative they have been given up until now.
Edit: mods, can we please pin this??
↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ (Moderator)
Definitely going to be pinning this. I’ll also add the document to the subreddit’s wiki.
Professional-Fun8163
Please, I need help. I’m almost done with center classes but am planning on leaving SCJ. But their indoctrination during the center shaped me in some way.
I must flee for my life, but I need help. Keep me in your prayers.
↳ Realistic-Big-2705
You are in our prayers. This is your best move as they will drain the life out of you.
John 10:10: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
YogaBreathMaster
Wim Hof and Jordan Peterson and Jamie Wheal.
Shincheonji-Skeptic (Moderator)
Great post. Hats off to you for compiling this info 😁👏
[deleted]
Better-Bid8424
Thank you for this article. We have just found our daughter has been indoctrinated by SCJ (in Brisbane Australia) for about 2-3 years. We are trying to work out how to help investigate this more critically and start asking more questions.
Unfortunately, she is completely enamoured by them to the point that she is forgetting to eat, her health is suffering immensely, and she is not sleeping much. She has completely changed over this time, becoming manipulative, letting down her family and friends, and lying constantly. She has gone from being a high-performing student to even letting down her friends in group assignments.
We are trying to work out how to get information like this to her as we believe she is putting all her energy into recruitment and running studies. She does call us and have regular contact, but it’s kept very short as every conversation is interrupted by ‘urgent’ phone calls and ‘meetings’.
She doesn’t know we know about SCJ yet. Are there any ways anyone knows to share information so they will see it? I am afraid that if we share this directly she will stop talking to us, and we need to keep her spending time with her family, at least in small chunks so she remembers how much we all love her.
We are trying to build a system of support, but she is trying to move into a house with others, which will mean they have her under their control 24/7 rather than just from 8 am until 1 am every day.
LittleBird50
I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. One of the difficult things with cults is that they keep you so busy that you aren’t able to get enough sleep or eat properly, and as a result, you lose a lot of your critical thinking ability. I honestly don’t think I would have left when I did if it hadn’t been for COVID, which forced us to stay inside and enabled us to sleep more and eat properly, which allowed me to regain my critical thinking.
With that in mind, even if you are able to get this information to your daughter, it unfortunately may not be the silver bullet you might expect. This information is hidden from most members, so it often is shocking, and many do eventually leave because of some combination of the problems outlined in the article, but it does often take some degree of willingness for the member to accept the information.
I would highly recommend reading Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of Mind in which he describes the Strategic Interaction Approach. This is a methodology he created for families to help loved ones who are members of a cult. And if you were to attempt to reveal to your daughter that you know she is in SCJ, I would suggest first taking her on some kind of holiday so that you can first let her catch up on sleep and eat properly, and think things over without the immediate input of the cult’s leadership team.
TheNerdful
That is unfortunate. I too share the same sentiments with my cousin, who got indoctrinated as well.
Mindless-Security361
Please can I send you a message?
MemberBenefits
https://amandawhitepsychology.com/leaving-a-cult/
AcceptableAd7830
Better-Bid8424, does she live with you or does she live outside the home?
Amphoo
I believe your daughter is capable of making her own decisions. You did raise her after all; have some hope in her abilities to reason for herself 😊. We can’t all have the same experiences. To be honest, if you are getting information from this random Reddit thread where rule #2 is nothing positive can be posted, then you and your daughter are having EXTREMELY different experiences!
The people that make up SCJ are actually very positive and loving and lots of fun too, haha. She probably wants to grow her heart and experience these things for herself. Maybe you could try to experience them for yourself too before judging? Although, to be honest, I would imagine it would be very, very hard for you to have an open heart after reading this Reddit page )):
I hope the best for you and your daughter 💕
(Know that misunderstanding can arise over anything, but especially over this church for some reason 😅. But even the churches of Jesus at the First Coming were given a very brutal time; they were always having riots started against them, people gossiped about them, even spread false information that they were a cult. You can find this in the New Testament. I guess that’s just the way it is 🤷♀️. But I would hope we pick the side that is spreading joy and love, not the side that spreads subjective internet comments, to be completely honest 🤔.)
WayOk2562
I’m curious; how many likes vs. dislikes are there on this post?
I’m asking because I’m suspicious of SCJ spies disliking this post to dampen the number of likes down…
fwysgd
Yeah, a few spies messaged me privately to know how leafs were unsuccessfully recruiting me. They’re so proactive.
Comprehensive_Ride17
You know what had helped me leave the cult? I had taken a social psych class, and when it came to the cult topic, everything applied to me.
Agreeable_Style_9538
They use an example to try to justify that.
They say that it doesn’t make sense to say a rat is a dog since they both have tails. So you can’t say SCJ is a cult just because it has similarities to other cults.
My argument to that is, what if that one or few things you have similar to other cults are actually characteristics of a cult? They just admitted they have similarities to other cults but just don’t pay attention to it. I ate it up years ago, but now that I snapped myself out of their trance, I can truly see what they were really doing.
Agreeable_Style_9538
I only read 10 pages but it still helped me leave! Thank you!
ziYan_accountant
Please everyone pin this post everywhere and share it on social media.
West-Painter-814
This is what I needed. Thank you so much for the time you took to bring all of this evidence together.
12345cult
EX-Shincheonji Member
This has possibly been the greatest post from LittleBird50 so far. I enjoyed reading it very much. Thank you.
bbpeach14
Well done. Your dedication to collate evidence against SCJ is commendable.
Beautiful-Ability-69
Thanks for sharing, I have a friend that’s in it and I talk with her daily asking questions but never playing the role of expert or judging her. Just simple questions. These documents will help a great deal in expanding my topics of conversation. I’m happy you left and chose you first because you deserve it. Wishing you all the best in this next journey.
↳ Ok-Warning-782
Hey just wanted to find out if your friend ever left. Please inbox me some of the simple questions you addressed to her. I’m trying to help my husband see the truth.
S-xodus
I just want to say that this post helped me decide to leave SCJ a few months ago so thank you very much for taking the time to create this document. Everything was so well laid out, easy to understand and helped me realize all of the things they were doing to cover up their flaws.
I hope others can use this as a tool for them to see the truth behind SCJs tactics. SCJ is wasting everyone’s lives and they all deserve a chance to hear all the facts.
↳ Amphoo
That makes sense, this post does paint a nasty picture of SCJ, so it makes sense that you would think less of SCJ after reading it )):
ElephantOk9697
Thank you so much. I had struggled and I was there by fear of leaving. I always felt something was wrong. And I was struggling with addiction because I was repressing my feelings a long time.
Ok_Link_9837
I needed this thanks for sharing.
Ok_Link_9837
My eyes are open now. I am also part of this Organization… I will run for my life.
Snoo-32551
All of this is great information, instead of always talking about it we need to come up with a plan, come together and somehow get this information out to all its members even if it means interrupting one of their services if not both Wednesday and Sunday service, my heart as of everybody else’s is to save people from being manipulated, nobody wants to be lied to. If anybody thinks this is a good idea then let’s do it there’s always away I’m very grateful to read this. I’m from there but I don’t attend services as much anymore because of the inconsistencies and the lies I just wanted to save the people I care about but I want to save everybody from this place so please let’s all come up with a plan.
↳ Snoo-32551
Please let’s do something..they think they’re invincible..
↳ OkHouse8336
Yes please!!!!
Flaky-Welder-3391
Well done for sharing, I’ve been out of SCJ for nearly 6 months and I still pop on here to see any new info of people leaving. This really helped me make the decision to leave.
Thank you for sharing and praying for your journey out of SCJ ❤️
[deleted]
Thank you for compiling this evidence and resource. I’ll share it with my SCJ bible teachers and leaders.
Corlys-
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and that you decided to leave the cult.
Alchemy1914
Good job 👍
chachacoolgirl15
For people who speak French, this page can help: r/Shincheonji_France
Connect-Pause-7540
Well done YOU!!! 👍🏽 You did what I attempted to do… I hope some wake up and are saved. Unfortunately, some will still refuse to look because of the fear put into them. Which makes me laugh… they say pastors in the world tie up their congregation members so they can’t leave but that’s what SCJ does. Who needs to look in the mirror and reflect now? I came out a few weeks ago. Nearly a decade I sacrificed my life, and like you, the cracks showed, and despite me trying to hang on for truth in the word, what is done in darkness came to light! The scary part is they are now starting to deliver messages to the congregation of a terrorist kind of language… e.g., we are in a war… Satan… the enemy are all those who oppose us… the government… etc… this is worrying 😟
New-life144
How can we share this to Shincheonji congregation members so that they can awaken??
New-life144
Thank you so much for posting this! 😀 I hope Shincheonji will stop deceiving people with their crappy doctrines from the devil.
BoomerDaBoomerang
That was a bold move and risky too ♥️ Just wondering if you had Nam Sago prophecies in a book or if you knew where to find them 👌
↳ LittleBird50
This page has translation and commentary on the book of prophecies Nam Sago supposedly wrote. They call it Kyuk-Am-Yu-Rok.
SignificantThing5519
I heard now from an SCJ Member that SCJ says now the Beast of the Earth mistake to Oh Pyong Ho was not MHL; it was a member that wrote the wrong name, not the right name (Oh Pyong Ho). It’s funny because SCJ says all is coming from MHL, but if a mistake happened, it was not MHL. But I understand, if they say it was MHL, they can close SCJ on the same day. Because the Bible says clear in Rev 22:18-19, Proverbs 30:4-5, 5.Mo 4:1-2, don’t take away or add something to God’s Word. And Oh Pyong Ho was added.
↳ QuestionsAboutSCJ
They’re always making excuses for their changed doctrines. The funnier part is that we have it all in writing.
New-life144
How can we share this to Shincheonji congregation members so that they can awaken?? So that they all can realize they are living a lie and just wasting their precious time in that prison named Shincheonji.
↳ Pink_Samwise_Gamgee
Hopefully, members will realize that to make an informed decision, you need to look at both sides. Once they get to that point, they will find these videos online.
Amphoo
One post shouldn’t really undo years worth of learning the Bible 😅 To be completely honest, the only people who will leave their church because of negative posts would be people who don’t really have their heart in it to begin with. Your posts are not awakening, but closing hearts. These posts will work on those who don’t have very open hearts.
I mean, isn’t it strange in general that reading an internet thread could change someone’s mind on the church they go to? It just shows they weren’t really a part of that church to begin with; they were just associating with it.
Amphoo
With the thousands of believers that come to learn about the church every month, how many are really going to become a part of the church? You guys aren’t awakening congregation members, but instead discouraging the people who are still learning, whether labeled as members already or not, they are still learning.
It’s not about the label, but it’s about the heart. True members of the church may find this post to be funny to be honest 😅 or on second thought, it could really hurt their heart to think that people give more weight to these internet pages over the church itself. But either way, a true member of SCJ will not have their heart closed by these posts, but only those who aren’t really a part of the church or those who are looking for an excuse to leave because… they’re not really a part of the church 😅
Come to think of it, you guys may be accelerating the work of God by separating the true believers from the false. But the problem is, you may discourage someone with an open heart before they even get a chance to learn for themselves )): why not just let them learn for themselves? Seems like you guys are the ones who really want the control… 😅 you guys say SCJ is controlling people, but actually, those people made their own decision to be there. They want to be there! They enjoy it! Why try to control them?
If they do not believe, then they will look for that excuse to leave. I guess you guys are just accelerating it. Oh man, it’s complicated I guess lol, but this definitely isn’t the work of awakening, right? Do you guys really believe the work of awakening brings you to internet pages where people just complain and argue and think less of their loved ones because of their beliefs. If that’s awakening, then oh my goodness 😅😅😅
Different-Bobcat3582
I am in the bible class from Shincheonji, they are asking us to register and sign a document this Friday KST.
Playment-_44
Do you know how to find the classes?
fishkeyy
Did you receive 666, 7 evil spirits like they said?
QuestionsAboutSCJ
Nope.
We discovered the truth about Shincheonji.
[deleted]
Thank you for sharing these contents. Can you please explain what does CHJN JPJN CCK mean in the file?
LittleBird50
CHJN = Chairman (which is the term we used for Lee Man-Hee)
JPJN = tribe leader (one of the highest levels of leadership in SCJ)
CCK = Christian Council of Korea (a mainstream Christian organisation which SCJ labelled as “Babylon”)
Amphoo
Good question! They are titles, like how in Japan they too use titles to show order. Like how a child is called “Chan” in Korea brother or sister has a title like that. (:
Rosequeen_SJC
https://ofyoutube.com/watch?v=iPZ-rYZRePc&t=4115s
Hope this video will be helpful.
Shincheonji-Skeptic
Remove the “of” before “youtube” on the URL then it will work
Sensitive-Feature-87
Don’t work