The purpose of this Reddit post here is to have it translated into various languages.
JPSA1993
Doctrine Change in Revelation 7 Explained + Sources Verified
This is what was written in the book titled “The Physical Fulfillment of Revelation” and the change in doctrine from the year 2020. This clearly explains what was taught while I was in SCJ vs. what is being taught now.
Watch the video
[deleted]
When I asked my task-given workers, instructors, and leaders for an explanation as to why the fulfillment of Revelation 7 changed, they always said, “Oh, Promised Pastor is just expressing his desire and what he thinks. He won’t know the reality until God reveals it to him.”
Sorry, but when you make a prediction about future events, that becomes a prophecy. That is the definition of a prophecy. When MHL taught Sydney Church and all SCJ congregation members that Revelation 7 will fulfill in a very specific order, that is a prophecy about Revelation 7.
MHL for years taught that Revelation 7 will fulfill in the following order: 144,000 are sealed, then the Great Tribulation begins, then the great multitude in white comes out of the Great Tribulation and streams to SCJ to receive salvation.
MHL created a prophecy about the fulfillment of Revelation 7 and prophesied that Revelation 7 would fulfill in an explicit order of events.
What MHL prophesied did not come to pass.
It isn’t the Word of God.
[deleted]
Another great video. The thing about SCJ’s doctrine is that it relies heavily on vague terms and language that can later be changed depending on the situation, and members will do mental gymnastics to make it fit.
I remember when MHL gave a sermon in the summer of 2020 on Revelation 7 as members were starting to question how the great multitude will come when we were no longer evangelizing. During the sermon, when speaking on Revelation 7, LMH said, “The Bible does not say that we evangelize the great multitude but that they come out of the great tribulation.” After evangelism started again, I questioned this and was gaslighted that he did not say we wouldn’t evangelize again. There are many terms and statements made in SCJ that are intentionally vague. Aside from the fact that there is not 12k per tribe, logically, how does it make sense that members still take tests and are sealing if 144k have already been “sealed”?
choose2btrue
Hope you won’t change your mind on posting more videos in the future.
Shincheonji-Skeptic
Moderator
I’ll keep going, my friend. It’s my ethical obligation to do so.
↳ [deleted]
Great video!
Shincheonji-Skeptic
Moderator
Thanks!
I live on a farm, so my house is surrounded by many animals. I struggle to make a video without random animal noises in the background, haha.
The next testimony will be from someone I recruited to SCJ.
↳ sunnx8
IMO, I absolutely love animal farm noises; it’s so sweet to hear them, so don’t worry about it! 😊 Thank you for the amazing videos!
Pink_Samwise_Gamgee
EX-Shincheonji Member
Hope you have a very Merry Christmas, Laurie!
↳ Shincheonji-Skeptic
Moderator
Thanks, you too 🙂
scj_love
Thanks so much for your efforts, Laurie. There has definitely been a gap in the media space for videos like this that explain contradictions, etc., in English. So this is truly great.
For anyone interested in the Physical Fulfillment book mentioned in the video, you can find it here (including the Creation book): Link to the book
Courtesy of u/mybc7 and u/PentaPenda (if I recall correctly) for originally sharing these on here.
Information taken from the Video.
Shincheonji Doctrine (Revelation 7) Explained
By Laurie
In this article, I explain what Shincheonji teaches about Revelation chapter 7. I speak from my own study of the Revelation books. I am not religious anymore. I do not claim to have the true interpretation of the Bible. I simply look at the claims in the book The Physical Fulfillment of Revelation.
Introduction to the Doctrine
Before I start, I want to say a few things. Many people think that I have misunderstood Revelation because of the way Shincheonji is structured. However, I always use the Revelation books as my standard. I use the book The Physical Fulfillment of Revelation to explain what is written. In my talk, I show a PowerPoint with points from the Revelation book and later claims by Lee Man-hee. I also share some answers that leaders give when you ask hard questions about Revelation 7. Often, they change the topic or make you feel that you do not understand.
What the Revelation Book Says
The narrative in the Revelation book is read exactly as it is written. For example, on “page 151”, Revelation 7:1 starts with the phrase “after this.” This phrase works like it does in Revelation 4:1. It tells us that the events in Revelation 7 happen after the events in Revelation 6. This means one event happens after another. It does not mean that time periods are mixed up.
On “page 152”, the text says that four angels stop the winds from blowing. These winds would carry out God’s judgment. In this part, the earth is seen as the tabernacle of the chosen people who betrayed, the sea is seen as the world, and the trees represent members of different church groups. The text explains that the judgment that came on the betrayers stops at this point.
On “page 153”, Revelation 7:4 explains that the winds do not blow while the 144,000 people are being sealed. Only when all the 144,000 are sealed will the winds blow again. This sealing is important. It shows that the number 144,000 is not a symbol but a real number. (See “page 156”)
On “page 160”, the phrase “after these things” in Revelation 7:9 tells us that a great multitude is gathered after the sealing of the 144,000. This great group comes from every nation, tribe, people, and language. In other words, it includes churchgoers from all denominations. (See “page 161”)
After the 144,000 are gathered, they preach the gospel of the physical fulfillment of the prophecies. From their preaching, a great multitude is gathered. This means that after the 144,000 are sealed, they spread the words of Jesus so that many more people can be saved.
The Role of the 144,000 and the Great Multitude
On “page 162”, the text explains that when the 144,000 reach their full number, God tells them to rule over the whole world. This means they will have power over every nation, people, language, and tribe. When the 144,000, who form the new spiritual Israel, are gathered, the gospel of heaven is spread all over the world. This causes every church, pastor, and churchgoer to understand that the teaching of Shincheonji is true.
In “page 163”, Revelation 7:13–14 tells us how the great multitude comes. The people in white robes come out after facing a great tribulation. They wash their clothes in the blood of the Lamb. Here, the blood of the Lamb is not literal blood but represents the words of Jesus that clean our sins and hearts. In this way, the 144,000, after preaching the gospel, help many people understand, repent, and receive salvation.
The Distinct Time Periods in Revelation 7
I once taught that there are two separate time periods in Revelation 7. One time period is when the 144,000 are sealed (as seen from “page 151” to “page 161”). The other time period is when the great multitude is gathered after the sealing, as explained from “page 162” onward. This means that first the sealing happens, and only later does the great tribulation and the gathering of the multitude take place. This order is very clear in the Revelation book.
Later, around March 2020, Lee Man-hee began to connect the COVID-19 pandemic with the great tribulation. He said that the great tribulation first comes upon those inside the 12 tribes and then later upon those outside them. Many followers were confused because this did not match the words in the Revelation book.
In a sermon on June 7, 2020, Lee Man-hee clearly explained that the 144,000 must be sealed and acknowledged by God before the great tribulation can happen. In his articles—Creation of God’s New Era, New Kingdom, New People and The Creation of Heaven and Earth and God’s Faith Walk Education—he stated that the sealing of the 144,000 was already complete and that the great tribulation was happening in 2020. He used language like:
- “We, Shincheonji, are facing the great tribulation” (from The Creation of Heaven and Earth and God’s Faith Walk Education, “page 79”)
- “The great tribulation has come” (from Creation of God’s New Era, New Kingdom, New People, “page 79”)
These messages, received from the Philip tribe headquarters, tried to convince followers that the events of Revelation were being fulfilled.
Questions, Confusion, and Shifting Answers
Many people started to ask questions because the teachings and the observed reality did not match. Leaders of Shincheonji often changed the subject or made questions seem like the asker did not understand. They would say things like, “You must keep believing,” or “There is something wrong with you if you do not understand.” This made many feel confused and frustrated.
I noticed that some leaders even tried to separate the ideas of 144,000 and the 12,000 from each tribe. However, my focus was only on the 144,000, as explained in the Revelation book. I did not bring in extra ideas about 12,000 from each tribe.
People also argued that perhaps there was a mistranslation from Korean to English. When I asked for details, the leaders could not explain what the error was. They only said that the Korean version was the same as the English version. This made it hard to know which explanation was right.
Some leaders admitted that there might be contradictions in the teachings. One even said that just because there is a contradiction, it does not mean that the whole message is false. But in logic, two opposite statements cannot both be completely true. One must be wrong. I believe that if we accept ideas that mix up reality and wishful thinking, it becomes hard to tell fact from fiction.
Final Thoughts and Personal Reflections
I have had many conversations about these ideas. Some people even said that my understanding is wrong. I only speak about what I have heard and read in the Revelation book. I did not add extra thoughts or change the words of the text. I believe that clear and specific language is important. When language is vague, it lets people attach their own meanings.
I also want to share that my opinions are not set in stone. Many people have asked if I will ever change my mind about my religious beliefs. I want you to know that all my conclusions are tentative. I always try to understand the truth rather than hold on to false hope. False hope can be harmful, and I care more about what is true.
I thank everyone who sent me questions and shared their experiences. Your honesty has helped me learn and think in new ways. I plan to release a testimony video each week and address more topics in future videos.
Thank you very much for listening. I hope to speak with you again very soon.
>>> Always consult or verify with the video content.